[UK] Anyone interested in easy to print NYLON?Pls register interest here
Posted by hughht5
|
[UK] Anyone interested in easy to print NYLON?Pls register interest here November 14, 2012 07:11AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 74 |
Hi,
I have recently been contacting a supplier of high grade 3mm nylon filament specially designed for 3d printing. Below is the FAQ from the manufacturer's page - I just wanted to make sure enough people were interested in a UK supplier and how much they'd be willing to pay for a pound of this filament.
If you are interested please PM me or email me @ hughht5@gmail.com and I will get back to you when I have stock.
I have not yet tested this material but I will test as soon as I get some and so far it has great reviews from people printing it in the US. Unlike other efforts to print nylon this requires no pre-heating in the oven to dry the nylon - it prints at around 240-250C and prints beautifully smooth, rock solid, and ultra light objects. It will also print flexible and smooth/slippery surfaces.
I look forward to hearing from you, please post any questions below or PM/email me.
Hugh
What are the major differences to me if I print in nylon?
There is almost no De-lamination. The bonding of thread-to-thread at the correct temperature is very impressive. Of course, even injection molded nylon parts are subject to splitting at right angle transitions, but compared to ABS and PLA we know you will be impressed.
The printing temperature will be slightly higher than what you use to print ABS. *** has spec'd the polymer such as to keep the 3D Printing temperature very low for high strength polyamides at 235 - 280c. Best temp for most parts is 248C.
The *** polyamide materials give off almost no odor as compared to ABS. Most residual odors come from the humidity (water) that boils or steams off during printing.
Nylon is hygroscopic and will absorb water from humid air and it's storage environment. Storing a spool in a bag with a few desiccant pouches overnight should eliminate most nozzle steam.
Can I just use plain Nylon trimmer line?
Trimmer line does "look" like and contain nylon, however, trimmer line or weed-whacker line also contains various additives that are destructive and or dangerous for your 3D Printer.
First, it has fiberglass to strengthen it, as without fiberglass, the ends will fray/split and cause jams. Next, nylon on it's own is too flexible, so fiberglass hardens it for cutting. Fiberglass will foul your nozzle because it requires a higher temp to melt along with the nylon. The higher temp will actually boil the nylon and other additives giving off a terrible smell. The additives are there to reduce the bulk % of nylon as nylon is a bit more expensive than the additives. These additives are usually calcium based and can clog or foul your nozzle.
Can I still print in High Resolution?
Absolutely. Also, some printers come with a fixed nozzle size and use layer height to increase resolution. This is acceptable.
What setting will I need to change in my skinning software?
.
You may need to very slightly increase the speed of your extruder to keep the nylon under a small constant pressure. We do this by slightly reducing the material size you enter into your skinning software. We use a 2.90 - 2.95mm for 3mm line.
Can I print parts that have a smooth color luster?
Definitely! You will need to keep the temperature below 255C. Also, 3D Printed Nylon surfaces are sensitive to nozzle imperfections, so if your nozzle end isn't smooth, it will reduce final smoothness. A trick we use is to make a buffing wheel out of nylon and buff our nozzle tips. Nylon buffing wheels are used in high precision satellite mechanisms. Makes for a very nice printed finish.
How do I get prints to stick to my platform?
We prefer the perforated printed circuit board material. This is a 6" x 8", or larger, sheet with holes spaced at 0.100" in both directions. The Nylon will push into some of these holes and cool thus holding the print down. Our testers have reported good results with standard masking tape and "Painter's Mate Green". Heated tables work/help the same as they do for ABS.
Are there fumes and odors?
The *** polyamide materials give off almost no odor as compared to ABS. Most residual odors come from the humidity (water) that boils or steams off during printing and 618 had no measurable HCN.
When printing with ABS, Nylon, PLA or any material, we are changing the state of elements with temperature, so make sure you vent all fumes and odors.
What is the most "visible" printing difference I'll notice when printing with nylon?
Shine or sheen from the translucent surface. This looks much different than PLA surfaces.
Will Nylon foul my nozzle if I leave the heater on?
Not as long as you turn your heater off before an hour after your print ends!
We've left our heaters on for over an hour after a print with no issues at all. We also commonly move back and forth from ABS to Nylon with no issues at all. We just purge about 50mm's.
Is there any chemical that I should "not" use with Nylon?
Yes, any strong acids can be a problem. They will break down the bonding of threads and weaken the printed part.
Has Nylon been used for 3D Printing in the past?
Yes. It didn't take long after the initial release of personal 3D Printers for people to try nylon. There were those, that like others, tried the nylon trimmer line route with mixed results due to additives and fiberglass. In addition, the base polymers were the same as they had been for over 40 years. Initial testing was done at high temperature to get the older polyamides to print. Some, too high at 340c and higher. This created concern as pyrolysis was close to being breached. We flatly rejected a test sample from a polymer company that required 340c to print and another that required 310c to print. We determined that even though both were being sold today, that indeed both were older formulations.
Outside of the 3D community, industrial injection molders were seeing an increase in small part production from a long list of gadgets we all use today. Molders were pushing the polymer industry to push temperatures and die abrasion down because small parts take a lot of pressure. Abrasion was making it difficult to get needed quantities out of very expensive dies.
Less than 4 base material suppliers answered the requests of molders. The result was adjustments in the mfg process and polymer configurations that reduced temperature and abrasion. This is the type of process used in the base material of *** materials. Printing at 248c@80mm/s with high strength nylon is almost unheard of. Abrasion is so low as to make injection molding nozzle life twice that of ABS and eight times that of PVC.
What will be the biggest differences in my part from being printed in ABS and then Nylon?
1. Strength. You will be amazed at the strength properties of the *** polyamides.
2. Weight....Nylon is lighter than ABS and PLA.
3. Pliability - A major advantage to *** nylon materials is the pliability that some of us have desired for a long time. From stretch in bands, to elasticity in support components, pliability means that multi-part assemblies are more likely to work as designed with minimal filing, cutting and sanding. Nylon springs can be completely compressed and return to a printed state. Hollow tubes are possible, when needed to guide gasses through complicated assemblies.
4. Slippery Surface - Nylon can eliminate collars, U-joints, washers, separate raceways and ball joints by using the materials slippery properties. Ball bearings that require no lubrication are easily printed. And most important, threaded holes that won't delaminate under pressure.
Will retraction work?
Because there is always a slight amount of pressure when printing nylon, retraction will work, but not as well as when printing ABS or PLA.
Your Color Page mentions RIT Dyes, are there other dyes I can use?
You can use any dye that is "acid based". Most textile dyes and some paper dyes are acid based. These are very light acids on the same pH level as vinegar.
Can I glue my nylon parts together?
The short answer is No. It is similar to trying to glue non-stick Teflon to non-stick Teflon.
We use a 20-40 watt soldering iron for melting part edges to each other.
What is Thread Compression?
Due to nylon's viscosity, you can push more material through the nozzle, than required for your part. The result is an even stronger part with less pliability.
I have recently been contacting a supplier of high grade 3mm nylon filament specially designed for 3d printing. Below is the FAQ from the manufacturer's page - I just wanted to make sure enough people were interested in a UK supplier and how much they'd be willing to pay for a pound of this filament.
If you are interested please PM me or email me @ hughht5@gmail.com and I will get back to you when I have stock.
I have not yet tested this material but I will test as soon as I get some and so far it has great reviews from people printing it in the US. Unlike other efforts to print nylon this requires no pre-heating in the oven to dry the nylon - it prints at around 240-250C and prints beautifully smooth, rock solid, and ultra light objects. It will also print flexible and smooth/slippery surfaces.
I look forward to hearing from you, please post any questions below or PM/email me.
Hugh
What are the major differences to me if I print in nylon?
There is almost no De-lamination. The bonding of thread-to-thread at the correct temperature is very impressive. Of course, even injection molded nylon parts are subject to splitting at right angle transitions, but compared to ABS and PLA we know you will be impressed.
The printing temperature will be slightly higher than what you use to print ABS. *** has spec'd the polymer such as to keep the 3D Printing temperature very low for high strength polyamides at 235 - 280c. Best temp for most parts is 248C.
The *** polyamide materials give off almost no odor as compared to ABS. Most residual odors come from the humidity (water) that boils or steams off during printing.
Nylon is hygroscopic and will absorb water from humid air and it's storage environment. Storing a spool in a bag with a few desiccant pouches overnight should eliminate most nozzle steam.
Can I just use plain Nylon trimmer line?
Trimmer line does "look" like and contain nylon, however, trimmer line or weed-whacker line also contains various additives that are destructive and or dangerous for your 3D Printer.
First, it has fiberglass to strengthen it, as without fiberglass, the ends will fray/split and cause jams. Next, nylon on it's own is too flexible, so fiberglass hardens it for cutting. Fiberglass will foul your nozzle because it requires a higher temp to melt along with the nylon. The higher temp will actually boil the nylon and other additives giving off a terrible smell. The additives are there to reduce the bulk % of nylon as nylon is a bit more expensive than the additives. These additives are usually calcium based and can clog or foul your nozzle.
Can I still print in High Resolution?
Absolutely. Also, some printers come with a fixed nozzle size and use layer height to increase resolution. This is acceptable.
What setting will I need to change in my skinning software?
.
You may need to very slightly increase the speed of your extruder to keep the nylon under a small constant pressure. We do this by slightly reducing the material size you enter into your skinning software. We use a 2.90 - 2.95mm for 3mm line.
Can I print parts that have a smooth color luster?
Definitely! You will need to keep the temperature below 255C. Also, 3D Printed Nylon surfaces are sensitive to nozzle imperfections, so if your nozzle end isn't smooth, it will reduce final smoothness. A trick we use is to make a buffing wheel out of nylon and buff our nozzle tips. Nylon buffing wheels are used in high precision satellite mechanisms. Makes for a very nice printed finish.
How do I get prints to stick to my platform?
We prefer the perforated printed circuit board material. This is a 6" x 8", or larger, sheet with holes spaced at 0.100" in both directions. The Nylon will push into some of these holes and cool thus holding the print down. Our testers have reported good results with standard masking tape and "Painter's Mate Green". Heated tables work/help the same as they do for ABS.
Are there fumes and odors?
The *** polyamide materials give off almost no odor as compared to ABS. Most residual odors come from the humidity (water) that boils or steams off during printing and 618 had no measurable HCN.
When printing with ABS, Nylon, PLA or any material, we are changing the state of elements with temperature, so make sure you vent all fumes and odors.
What is the most "visible" printing difference I'll notice when printing with nylon?
Shine or sheen from the translucent surface. This looks much different than PLA surfaces.
Will Nylon foul my nozzle if I leave the heater on?
Not as long as you turn your heater off before an hour after your print ends!
We've left our heaters on for over an hour after a print with no issues at all. We also commonly move back and forth from ABS to Nylon with no issues at all. We just purge about 50mm's.
Is there any chemical that I should "not" use with Nylon?
Yes, any strong acids can be a problem. They will break down the bonding of threads and weaken the printed part.
Has Nylon been used for 3D Printing in the past?
Yes. It didn't take long after the initial release of personal 3D Printers for people to try nylon. There were those, that like others, tried the nylon trimmer line route with mixed results due to additives and fiberglass. In addition, the base polymers were the same as they had been for over 40 years. Initial testing was done at high temperature to get the older polyamides to print. Some, too high at 340c and higher. This created concern as pyrolysis was close to being breached. We flatly rejected a test sample from a polymer company that required 340c to print and another that required 310c to print. We determined that even though both were being sold today, that indeed both were older formulations.
Outside of the 3D community, industrial injection molders were seeing an increase in small part production from a long list of gadgets we all use today. Molders were pushing the polymer industry to push temperatures and die abrasion down because small parts take a lot of pressure. Abrasion was making it difficult to get needed quantities out of very expensive dies.
Less than 4 base material suppliers answered the requests of molders. The result was adjustments in the mfg process and polymer configurations that reduced temperature and abrasion. This is the type of process used in the base material of *** materials. Printing at 248c@80mm/s with high strength nylon is almost unheard of. Abrasion is so low as to make injection molding nozzle life twice that of ABS and eight times that of PVC.
What will be the biggest differences in my part from being printed in ABS and then Nylon?
1. Strength. You will be amazed at the strength properties of the *** polyamides.
2. Weight....Nylon is lighter than ABS and PLA.
3. Pliability - A major advantage to *** nylon materials is the pliability that some of us have desired for a long time. From stretch in bands, to elasticity in support components, pliability means that multi-part assemblies are more likely to work as designed with minimal filing, cutting and sanding. Nylon springs can be completely compressed and return to a printed state. Hollow tubes are possible, when needed to guide gasses through complicated assemblies.
4. Slippery Surface - Nylon can eliminate collars, U-joints, washers, separate raceways and ball joints by using the materials slippery properties. Ball bearings that require no lubrication are easily printed. And most important, threaded holes that won't delaminate under pressure.
Will retraction work?
Because there is always a slight amount of pressure when printing nylon, retraction will work, but not as well as when printing ABS or PLA.
Your Color Page mentions RIT Dyes, are there other dyes I can use?
You can use any dye that is "acid based". Most textile dyes and some paper dyes are acid based. These are very light acids on the same pH level as vinegar.
Can I glue my nylon parts together?
The short answer is No. It is similar to trying to glue non-stick Teflon to non-stick Teflon.
We use a 20-40 watt soldering iron for melting part edges to each other.
What is Thread Compression?
Due to nylon's viscosity, you can push more material through the nozzle, than required for your part. The result is an even stronger part with less pliability.
|
Re: [UK] Anyone interested in easy to print NYLON?Pls register interest here November 14, 2012 08:49AM |
Admin Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 2,569 |
Quote
hughht5
The *** polyamide ...
... of *** materials ...
... major advantage to *** nylon materials ...
I like how you hide the manufacturer/product name. Way to tell us where your priority is
Edit : By the way this is useless, search engines will give this link with any sentence cut and paste from the faq : [taulman3d.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2012 08:55AM by DeuxVis.
Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.
|
Re: [UK] Anyone interested in easy to print NYLON?Pls register interest here November 14, 2012 10:18AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 74 |
I did not mean to hide him. I did a find and replace before printing the FAQ off and forgot to put his name back in. Anyways I have no objection to you buying direct just you'll be killed on shipping. I want to make it accessible.
If anyone has tested taulman3D nylon before any feedback would be helpful.
Sorry for any confusion
Hugh
If anyone has tested taulman3D nylon before any feedback would be helpful.
Sorry for any confusion
Hugh
|
Re: [UK] Anyone interested in easy to print NYLON?Pls register interest here November 15, 2012 10:44AM |
Admin Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 2,569 |
Forgive me for being paranoid, that part of the forum is often populated by people who see us as being clients before being partners.
Thanks for the information, I'm looking forward to testing nylon one day.
On a side note, I've read somewhere else (general forum I think) that melting nylon emits much more dangerous substances than that we have with PLA and even ABS. I have no certainty on that matter, but hey you have been warned.
Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.
Thanks for the information, I'm looking forward to testing nylon one day.
On a side note, I've read somewhere else (general forum I think) that melting nylon emits much more dangerous substances than that we have with PLA and even ABS. I have no certainty on that matter, but hey you have been warned.
Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.
|
Re: [UK] Anyone interested in easy to print NYLON?Pls register interest here November 15, 2012 11:26AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 74 |
Yeah - the fumes do kinda worry me. Taulman says he's tested it and it should be safe, but I would have no idea how to check for myself. I think the main thing is that it must not be overheated above the recommended temps else the fumes turn toxic. I certainly wont test in the house for now.
Anyways - glad to hear you're interested. I was planning on getting about 24 lb of filament and just seeing if it goes on ebay etc. Nylon should prove to be a great material to print with if Taulman really has got it right!! I can't wait.
Anyways - glad to hear you're interested. I was planning on getting about 24 lb of filament and just seeing if it goes on ebay etc. Nylon should prove to be a great material to print with if Taulman really has got it right!! I can't wait.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.