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Is Filastruder a better option than building your own extruder?

Posted by solidude 
Is Filastruder a better option than building your own extruder?
October 16, 2014 01:40AM
I saw this: [www.instructables.com]
There's also Lyman's Extruder.

Is the Filastruder in any way better than these for making your own filament?
The $300 price, plus the developer's attitude (not just my opinion, people posting about that in forums and youtube videos), plus the fact that it doesn't come assembled and all it saves you from doing is cutting the nipple (well, partially, [www.youtube.com] ) and few wooden blocks and sourcing the components from different places and you still need the knowledge to connect and solder everything makes me wonder if I should get another one or just build my own and save some money and nerves.

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backing up my claims about the seller of Filastruder:
[www.youtube.com]
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AppleNewsRelease
DO not buy form Filastruder
Tim is rude and offered no help at all in email. I am going to make videos showing you guys why you should stay away form scam like this. Open your paypal case now if your don’t before 45 days is up they will send you junk parts that doesn't fit nor work and steal your money don’t do what I did. STAY away from these junks and buy from elsewhere. Save yourselves time and money.

[www.soliforum.com]
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foofoodog
Remember way back when, when you offered to refund my filastruder purchase price so you would never have to hear me whine about it? Does that offer still stand?

[3dprintboard.com]
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TIm Elmore
The instructions aren't there because we got bored and had nothing to do. They're there because they're important. Apologies for being a bit frustrated but it wastes my time and yours when you don't read the instructions. Lose-lose all around.
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Well sorry for missing that bit of text.... and I never said or had the intent of implying you ignored my email. Sure you can be frustrated, but letting it get the better of you and being rude to a paying customer isn't very professional.

Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2014 02:15AM by solidude.
Re: Is Filastruder a better option than building your own extruder?
October 16, 2014 08:57AM
Tim here, from Filastruder. I can say that the first two cases are definitely not the whole story, I'll leave it at that as to not badmouth people behind their backs. As for the third case, well it is indeed frustrating when people don't read the instructions. For each of those three cases, there's a dozen customers posting the opposite - here's a quote from an email I got just last night:

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That's very considerate! Thank you. I will definitely buy more E3D stuff from you in the future. If anyone asks about your customer service, I will give it high marks

Or this, a few weeks ago:

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It works extremely well which in the end was all I cared about, but once you start reading the forum posts that elmoret is constantly answering you come to understand that his knowledge about his product and the entire field of "plastic filament extrusion" isn't something you can gain with a minor amount of time and effort. The Filastruder is a great example of being a product that was designed from the viewpoint of price and function being the cornerstone of a great product offering. It's also worth mentioning that the after sale support of the Filastruder is excellent as this forum will prove to you.
[www.soliforum.com]

As for the device itself as compared to Lyman, I've had people buy both and ask for conversion kits to convert their Lyman to a Filastruder. The Lyman design does a few things wrong, like putting the thrust bearing inside the hopper on their later design (contaminates pellets) and not using a melt filter to screen out contaminants, dust, and dirt.

As for the Filastruder compared to the Instructables link, the Filastruder runs on 12 volts and uses an appropriately sized heater which is much safer from electorcution and toxic thermal decomposition points of view. If you do go the instructables route be sure you understand the risks and take appropriate precautions.

As for the youtube video of the barrel, the barrels are much more cleanly deburred than that. There was a time period where they were not deburred until I found a machine shop that could do it cost effectively, but the need for deburring was always listed on the product page and the assembly instructions - it shouldnot have come as a surprise. I tried to get in touch with that person a few times and offered a full refund if he returned the kit (even though deburring was clearly listed as neccessary prior to assembly), but never heard from him. Again - often times you only see one side of the story, but you can read more here: [www.soliforum.com]

If you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer.

Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2014 09:28AM by greenman100.
Re: Is Filastruder a better option than building your own extruder?
November 27, 2014 11:35PM
I have a #500ish Filastruder and I've been happy with the support on Solidfoum. Tim is very active there and answers a lot of questions. 3D printing is new, personal extruders are even newer. You have to be comfortable with a little ambiguity. It took me awhile to get mine tweaked in, but the last run went well, good consistency, clean filament with the melt filter. I like buying things like these unassembled so that I know I can tear it down and put it back together. I'd buy another one.
Re: Is Filastruder a better option than building your own extruder?
December 15, 2014 10:45AM
I don't understand how the Instructables Extruder is in any way more danger of electrocution compared to Filastruder.
I also don't understand how decomposition of ABS can happen because of the size of the heater if the heater is running at the same 180C-ish and motor is running faster and the plastic is flowing faster.

Also, it seems to produce 1kg of filament in 1 hour compared to Filastruder which is a lot slower.
Filament diameter also seems to be consistent.
And it indeed can cost around 120-130$ compared to $300 of Filastruder.

And since Filastruder comes as much of a kit it can get (only thing done for you is wooden blocks cut/drilled and pipe cut), why should we choose it over "building our own" like the one in Instructables? There doesn't seem to be much of a difference between the Filastruder "kit" and DIY instructables/etc when it comes to difficulty level and assembly time.

You really seem to be trying to use false advertising by using scare words like electrocution and toxic decomposition to try to convince your extruder is better, while both are almost the same design with yours using a smaller heater and motor.
I'm sorry if this is rude, but it honestly seems like so.

Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2014 11:02AM by solidude.
Re: Is Filastruder a better option than building your own extruder?
December 15, 2014 12:33PM
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solidude
I don't understand how the Instructables Extruder is in any way more danger of electrocution compared to Filastruder.
I also don't understand how decomposition of ABS can happen because of the size of the heater if the heater is running at the same 180C-ish and motor is running faster and the plastic is flowing faster.

Quite simply, the Instructable says to use a mains power heater band, so if the PID fails the power stays on the heater band will heat up way beyond the decomposition temperature of most commonly used plastics. This is where the decomposition risk comes from.

Also, as the heater band is mains power, this is also where the electrocution risk comes from.

The filastruder uses a 12v heater band which is sized such that even if the PID fails and leaves the power on the temperature will remain below critcical levels.


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solidude
You really seem to be trying to use false advertising by using scare words like electrocution and toxic decomposition to try to convince your extruder is better, while both are almost the same design with yours using a smaller heater and motor.
I'm sorry if this is rude, but it honestly seems like so.
Maybe you should go and read through all the Soliforum filastruder posts like I did before I spent my money, and you will see that all of the above has been explained many times.

However, it is of course a free market and you wish to buy the pieces and make the Instructable version, then you are free to do so, but to naively accuse others of false advertising when you have not read all the materials that they provide is simply rude (using you own words).


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ABS, PLA Pellets and Masterbatch available for UK and Europe:
Suitable for use with Filastruder and similar filament extruders

[www.emakershop.com]
Re: Is Filastruder a better option than building your own extruder?
December 16, 2014 07:17AM
Like CraigRK said, the risk of electrocution comes from the fact that the Instructables design uses a high voltage band heater. The Filastruder design uses a custom low voltage (12v) heater.

Also like Craig said, the risk of thermal decomposition comes from the fact that the Instructables design uses a 200 watt heater. This will easily get over 500C in my experience if there is a short circuit or the thermocouple/controller fails, quickly causing toxic thermal decomposition of almost every single polymer.

Actually the fact that I use custom designed low voltage, appropriately sized heaters makes things more expensive for me - but safety is more important than profit in my eyes.

Regarding speed: I am very conservative with my speed numbers. I don't try to lie or exaggerate. Some Filastruder users report speeds 4-5 times faster than I state on my website. Same thing for diameter tolerances - I state +/-0.05mm, but some users report +/-0.02mm or +/-0.01mm.

Hopefully that clarifies all of your concerns, solidude.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2014 07:17AM by greenman100.
Re: Is Filastruder a better option than building your own extruder?
December 17, 2014 07:45PM
I've ordered a few E3D hot ends from Filastruder.com and they were delivered the very next day with a complimentary pack of gummy bears.

Had a few questions regarding the E3D and they were very helpful. I wouldn't hesitate recommending them to anyone that needs a quality product and expects quality service.
Re: Is Filastruder a better option than building your own extruder?
December 19, 2014 01:55PM
Repeating what vitaminrad said, the other day I had a question about a past order from last February as I couldn't find/remember what size nozzle I ordered with my E3D hot end. I submitted a contact form at 9:59 AM and I had a reply in my email at 10:11 AM. I don't think I've ever received an customer service email that fast when dealing with ANY company online. Based on my dealing with them, I wouldn't make my decision based solely on what a few customers support reviews say. ANY company that has reviews is going to have negative ones regardless of how good or bad the support is.
Re: Is Filastruder a better option than building your own extruder?
January 31, 2016 03:56PM
I just finished building that kind of DIY extruder, the instructable is great at the best available on the web IMHO.
My story is a little different as the only purpose I did it was to test plastic bottle PET extrusion (miserable failure), but I will probably be testing it with industrial ABS pellets just to avoid having wasted all the time I spent on the construction (costed me about 120EUR for various purchases, but some of those are for materials that I didn't use, or used only partially, so realistically it's less than 100EUR).
In my case, the heating band is 220v, and the PID as well. The PID should fail in a way so that the DC tension to the SSR keeps the band active, I don't know if it's possible but anyway after my very first experience tonight, and the horrid stink I got inside my "mcgyver room" which I could distinctively feel even if I was masked as if I was cooking meth, I conducted today's tests outside, and if I ever start producing my own filament with ABS in the future, I will keep doing it only outside and never in the house anymore.
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