Arcol Hot-End V4: Any good?

Hi all,

I'm thinking about getting an arcol.hu hot-end for my first RepRap since I don't have the tools to make my own, and this is available locally in Germany and even quite cheap. Many people have used the V3 Arcol hot-end with good results.

However, the one I could buy is the V4, which is quite hidden on the Arcol site (the article is at http://wiki.arcol.hu/v4-announcement, but it's not linked in the main Wiki). I like the design, it's a lot shorter than the V3, but I haven't seen anybody using it and the fact that it's so hidden could mean it's not ready for prime time? If someone has it in their RepRap, I'd appreciate it if you could share your experiences.

Thanks a lot in advance,
Björn

I bought a V3 but have never used it mainly because you need a special extruder sled to mount it.
It does appear to be very robust, looks like it would be very reliable.

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Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

That's one more advantage of the V4, it mounts to a standard Wade.

WOW, just looked at the V4, seems like it would attach to the standard sled without any problems.
I would say "Go for it!".

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Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

I'm also interested in this hot-end but it doesn't look as firm as V3. The assembly guide warns about crushing the thin stainless steel barrel. Also, I do not see it in the arcol webshop, so we can't seem to order it...

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Visit my blog: [blog.agten.net]

There are other webshops selling it, just do a google search with "arcol.hu v4".

I received mine in mail today, I bought the last one from xyzprinters.com.

I like the design, the full metal structural construction should allow using high temperatures with no problems (PEEK's maximum operating temp is 250C and the ABS I'm using won't fuse properly below 260C) and it's extremely compact (which translates directly to increased vertical printing area). Naturally I'm not going to do destructive testing on the stainless steel barrel but it feels sturdy enough for normal use, it's not like it's foil or something.

I'll tell how it works when I get it up and running.

I have now printed a full set of geared extruder plastic parts with the Arcol.hu V4 hot-end and I can confirm that it works fine. In fact, I was very surprised at how little force the filament needs (3mm ABS from orbi-tech.de at 260C) - I adapted my previous direct drive extruder for it and didn't have any problems when printing at 70mm/s, with 0.5mm nozzle and 0.25mm layers. Still, I'll be changing to the freshly printed geared extruder since the adapting was just a temporary hack. Overall the prints look as clean and accurate as from my previous extruder (m-p V9).

Oh, and if you buy this, do be careful with the heat break (the stainless steel tube with really thin walls). It shouldn't be a problem unless you mess up somehow, but I almost broke it when my hand slipped while pushing the assembled extruder into the mounting plate. It bent a little, but I straightened it out and it has worked fine since then.

Also the first thermistor was shorting out after 140C (quite reliably even) and I had to drill it out and install a second one with high temp silicone instead of fire cement. I still don't know what the actual problem was but the second one's working fine.

I just ordered one with 0.35mm nozzle.

Whats the fire cement good for?

Nio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whats the fire cement good for?

Mine crumbled off pretty quickly... So I used some hardening heat sink paste for the resistor and high temp silicone for the thermistor, these seem to work better. I have no idea why you would want to cake the heating block in it, that doesn't seem to serve any practical purpose.

Hi,

Its heartwarming to read positive comments about v4.

In the future I will create a mailing list or forum
(yet to be decided, any preferences? Even facebook?), but in the mean time,
I try to respond to your questions here.
(lets say once a week I respond to the accumulated questions. )

bjoerngiesler:
The v4 development started in last july or august.
Around end of november (2011) I had the fifth working prototype
(in that version was everything all steel already, unlike the previous 4 prototypes).

The v4.0.0 started in the beginning of december, it was sort of private sale until some weeks ago.
(private sale == didn't announce it on my blog, and neither I put on my webshop. But if you knew about it, and asked me (in mail or on irc), then you get one. Noone was closed out.)

This design is revolutionary, because (correct me if Im wrong)
this is the only all steel design available in the market, which can extrude both pla and abs.

But you cant push the new design out of door in one go, its a huge risk.
If it fails at too many people (even if its working at you), you can burried in refunds,
going literally bankrupt, even if its just a hobby for you.

So I went to the safer path, selling slowly, and improving the design on the way.

Im on v4.0.5 right now. But the design still evolves. I still need to cook up an announcement post.

pietr: Yes the stainless steel barrel is a bit fragile. But it breaks only if you do something unexpected.
In normal usage it will last for eternity. (I still use my very first version since december, and pushed
more then 15kg of filament through).


Nio: The firecement is good for three things mainly:
- it fixes the thermistor in place
- it can encapsulate the thin wires of the thermistor, so its harder to break.
- it fixes the power resistor in place, if you apply sideways too.

It has the disadvantage of being too rigid, any small hit may result crumbling of of the heater block.

ttsalo: Im glad you like it Heat resistant glue is good too, if you dont mind the other two advantage of firecement


The design is still in development. The more I sell the faster I can roll out new improvements.
There was always an improvement between batches

Oh, and dont forget the hyenas when you are thinking getting one. It does make a difference while extruding.

Best,
Laszlo
[arcol.hu]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2012 02:57AM by arcol.

I am using the arcol v4 with abs. The Heater of the hotend is very close to the nozzle end. so the prints stay hot for a while. i have a lot of problems printing small objects.

so i tried to install a fan. the fan cools the hotend down to 210°C from 250°c of the first layer without the fan.

> so i tried to install a fan. the fan cools the hotend down to 210°C from 250°c of the first layer without the fan.

Do you use the insulation portaryed in v4.1.1 announcement blogpost?:
[blog.arcol.hu]

I dont have cooling problem at all, and I use fans too.

> I dont have cooling problem at all, and I use fans too.

If you are wondering what carriage and fans I use, please read this blogpost:
[blog.arcol.hu] [ Maglev carriage fan ]

Best,
Laszlo

I also published my whole extruder setup: [blog.arcol.hu] [ Recommended extruder setup by arcol.hu].

I also put it available for sale ( [shop.arcol.hu] ) too.

Best,
Laszlo

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2013 11:15AM by arcol.

This hotend is to fragile. This is the second one I broke trying to put the insulation collar on. The first one broke because of screwing by hand the stainless part to the noozle making the tube twist... Not tightening.
The funny part of this story is I dont have made a print with it.===> Garbage
It is beautifull but not efficient at all.
Sorry for that but 100$ for nothing is kind of depressing me.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2013 08:04AM by ybm.

Oh, I forgot. After my first one broke, Laszlo suggest me to get a new stainless tube for less 26€ instead of 36 and he also told me that he have some with cosmetic failure for 19. So I went for a 19.
That is mayby why it broke up so easyly.
I keep this hotend for decoration.

So I've finally managed to get my V4.1.1 soldered up and assembled. Haven't built it in or tried printing yet.

First of all, I had no problem assembling it. It has nice wrench grips on both sides of the thin steel tube, so there's no need to put any stress on the tube at all. And there are warning messages plastered all over the place.

It looks really nice, solid piece of engineering. It's not much shorter than my J-Head (about 2mm or so), I had hoped for a lot more.

I heated it up to solidify the car exhaust glue that I used instead of the supplied fire cement, which had long since dried. During the heat-up phase, I noticed that although the bottom got really hot, the heatsink didn't even get warm to the touch. Hence my question...

@Laszlo: your instructions specify this thing needs a fan. But the heatsink doesn't even get warm. Do I really need one? I can't print one because I need a working extruder first, and your variant is for a Prusa and won't fit my Hadron... I print at PLA temperatures.