Firmware Retraction with multiple Tools

I have a strange issue with Firmware retraction and multiple Tools/ extruders.
Sometimes after the tool change the retraction will be done very slowly, I would say something like 1-2mm/s, instead of specified 60 mm/s. The Z-hop would be done very slowly as well.
First I had it only with one tool, this effect was gone after changing to the other driver on Duex4. But now it is back and with the other extruder (Tool 0, connected to Extruder 0).
So what I have is the following:

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;Motor Settings
M92 X160 Y160 Z160 ; Set axis steps/mm - double for 0.9 deg steppers
M92 E152:148:150:150:148:150 ; Set extruder steps per mm - same as before because using 1.8 deg steppers
M906 X1200 Y1200 Z1200 E1500:1500:1500:1500:1500:1500 ; Set motor currents (mA)- each extruder explicitly
M201 X1500 Y1500 Z1500 E1500:1500:1500:1500:1500:1500 ; Accelerations (mm/s^2)
M203 X20000 Y20000 Z20000 E6000:6000:6000:6000:6000:6000 ; Maximum speeds (mm/min)
M566 X900 Y900 Z900 E900:900:900:900:900:900 ; Maximum instant speed changes mm/minute

; Tool definitions
M563 P0 D0 H1 ; Define tool 0
G10 P0 S0 R0 ; Set tool 0 operating and standby temperatures
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Set tool 0 offsets from the centre
M563 P1 D3 H1 ; Define tool 1
G10 P1 S0 R0 ; Set tool 1 operating and standby temperatures
G10 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Set tool 1 offsets from the centre
M563 P2 D5 H1 ; Define tool 2
G10 P2 S0 R0 ; Set tool 2 operating and standby temperatures
G10 P2 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Set tool 2 offsets from the centre

;Firmware Retraction
M207 S6.0 F3600 Z0.2

; Preasure Advance
M572 D0 S0.2
M572 D3 S0.2
M572 D5 S0.2

All extruders can move fast enough if extruded manually. But with G10 and G11 it will move like in slow-motion. This behaviour seems to be connected with the Tool change sequence, so here are my tfree.g, tpre.g and tpost.g files:

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tfreeX.g
M83 ; relative extruder mode
G1 E-4 F3600 ; retract 4mm
G1 E3 F3600 ; unretract 3mm to reduce stringing
G1 E-20 F3600 ; retract 20mm fast
G1 E-160 F2500 ; retract 160mm to clean the Y switcher

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tpreX.g
G91 ; relative moves
G1 Z2 F5000 ; raise nozzle 2mm
G90 ; absolute moves
G1 X0 Y-140 F5000 ; move head out of the way of the print

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tpostX.g
M83 ; relative extruder mode
G1 E160 F3600; undo retraction
G1 E50 F300; slowly feed 50mm into the nozzle
G1 E-4 F3600
G91 ; relative moves
;G1 R1 Z2 F5000 ; bring the nozzle back, but 2mm hier
;G1 R1
G1 E-4 F3600

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These files are named tfree0-2, etc to suit the other tools.

I am not sure what is happening here, is it a FW bug, or do I have a mistake somewhere in the configuration files?

I have just removed all the Tool change files from the SD card, - but the problem is still there. Currently Tool0 does G10 and G11 very slow. It has not problem to retract at 60mm/3 with DWC...

One thing I just have noticed though:
when I send M207 without any parameters, here is what comes as a reply:

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M207
Retraction settings: length 6.00/6.00mm, speed 3600/3600mm/min, Z hop 0.20mm

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Apparently there are only two set of parameters recognised, I guess it should have 3 sets, since there are 3 tools defined? or is it Retract / Unretract settings?
DWC sees and recognises 3 tools in the Settings/tools section

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2016 09:28AM by Teilchen.

David, I am sorry to speak up to you in person, but I am afraid this is not going to work without your help.
If I run G10 and G11 on Tool0, my printer still retracts very slow. Even after multiple reboots.
However, if I run G1 E-6 F3600, which is basically the same as M207 retraction settings, printer will do it as fast as expected. I can repeat it as often as I like... so this must be some sort of bug in the firmware, or badly misconfigured printer.

Which firmware version are you using?

There is currently a single set of retraction and un-retraction settings, which is applied to all tools. The two values being printed are for retraction and un-retraction.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2016 05:00AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I am at the latest 1.17RC3 with DWC 1.14-b4 if that matters. But I had the same behavior with 1.10a... jumped directly to 1.17.

You have 0.2mm of Z hop enabled. The retraction and Z hop are done in a single move, and what I think is happening is that your Z maximum speed or acceleration parameter is the limiting factor in how fast the move can be done. Z hop should normally be used only with delta printers, which have high Z movement speeds.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2016 05:52AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Well, what can I say: you were right, it does have something to do with the Z hop. As soon as I set it to zero, the Tool0 retracts as it should!

However, I do have a delta

And other 2 Tools retract just fine with the Z hop. I only change the tools in DWC, and Tool0 is slow, but both Tool1 and Tool2 are fast.
Any ideas what can cause this?

Thanks!

Gentlemen, I really need some help here!
T0 just would not retract as fast as other tools with The Z-hop activated. If I set the M207 Z0.0 - al works as expected.
I know that the printer can move as fast as necessary, I just need to switch to T1 or T2, and the same retraction settings work just fine! I know it sounds crazy, but this must be some kind of bug or misconfiguration. But I just cannot figure it out alone.
more information is available in the first post, and I can make a video or something if it is necessary...
Thanks!

Please post the whole of your config.g file in case something else is affecting the retraction speed.

If you create a tool 3 with exactly the same settings as tool 0, does it have the same problem?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2017 03:14PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Hi David, here is my Config.g file, I have deleted the network settings out, just for the heck of it...
I have tried to setup a fourth tool T3 with the same setting as T0, and I have the same behavior: as long as the Z-hop is not zero - the retraction will be done very slow.
I hope you will see a simple misconfiguration here...

I took a look at the code again and found a problem... but only if you create additional axes using the M584 command. I'll keep looking.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
Teilchen
Hi David, here is my Config.g file, I have deleted the network settings out, just for the heck of it...
I have tried to setup a fourth tool T3 with the same setting as T0, and I have the same behavior: as long as the Z-hop is not zero - the retraction will be done very slow.
I hope you will see a simple misconfiguration here...

I've tried to reproduce this issue on my delta by configuring additional tools with imaginary extruders, but I can't make it happen. Retraction for tool 0 happens at a normal speed, and the Z hop speed when I switch to a tool with an imaginary extruder is just the same as for tool 0. I don't have a DueX2 or DueX5 connected, which could make a difference.

One thing I notice about your config.g file is that for tools 0 and 3 you have G10 Px S0 R0, whereas for tools 1 and 2 you have G10 Px S250 R0. Do you still get the same problem if you use S250 in the G10 commands for tools 0 and 3?

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

David, thanks for trying to help me.
Yes, the G10 doesn't affect the problem in any way.

Can a wiring issue cause this to happen? I used to have the same issue with a tool asigned to D2 extruder of DueX4. I have physically switched the D2 to D3, which has solved the problem with that particular tool, but immediately started with Tool zero, connected to D0 extruder of the Duet itself.
At that point I was sure it has something to do with the extruder drive, but now I know, that with z-hop disabled the system performs as expected. I do not have enough knowledge to assume if there might be a crosstalk thing or something else weird happening here.
It is very confusing to me though, that G1 E5 F3600 works fast, but the same settings with M207 are slow if I use Z0.1 (or any other unequal to zero value), and M207 z0 solves the problem as-well.
I have a 'not so perfect' placement of DueX4, if you think there might be so interference happening, let me know. The picture shows the earlier stage of integrating the DueX4, so now the cooling situation is better, but the hardware placement is the same basically.

I ran my tests on a Duet WiFi, so there is another difference. I don't have a delta controlled by a Duet 085.

The critical part of DuetX4 wiring is that the ground wire connecting the two VIN terminal blocks must be short and thick and the screws holding it tightened securely.

Please can you connect via Pronterface and USB, then enable Move debug using M111 S1 Pn where n is the Move module number. I can't remember the right number, but you can run M111 S1 P15 to get the list. Enable DDA debug in the same way. Then record the DDA and DM data that is printed when you run G10, for the working tool and the malfunctioning tool.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I just did as you requested, please see the attached files, the naming should be self explanatory.
By the way, why should this be done with a Pronterface?

Quote
Teilchen
I just did as you requested, please see the attached files, the naming should be self explanatory.
By the way, why should this be done with a Pronterface?

Thanks. You don't have to use Pronterface to get these debug reports, any host program or terminal emulator that can connect via USB will do. Debug output is only sent to USB because there would be buffering issues if we sent a lot of it to the web interface.

From that data I can see that the problem is that the acceleration is being restricted to 3.33mm/sec^2 when you use T0 whereas it is 66.7mm/sec^2 using T2. Now I just need to work out why.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Another quick test you can do: does it make any difference if you set pressure advance to zero in the M572 commands? Pressure advance is supposed to be disabled for moves with no XY component, but I am wondering if that's not working properly.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Pressure advance doesn't seem to have any effect on this issue.
If I set M572 D0 S0.0 the retraction with Tool0 is still slow.

Let me know if there is something else I could try out for you.

I think I found the bug. If I have identified it correctly, the problem on tool 0 will go away if you set pressure advance to zero for tool 3.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Hey David,
By saying Tool3 I guess you meant D3 on the DueX4.
Indeed, if I set the pressure advance for D3 to zero, Tool0 (D0) - retracts fast!

Thanks a lot for your help. No rush to fix it for me, it is fine if I know the workaround for now.
However, I use to have the same behavior with D2 (hat is why I have changed it to D3 physically), so there might be more too it... just a tip, that there are maybe more dependencies hidden...

The retract speed on D2 will depend on the pressure advance setting on D5.

I'm going to do a 1.17c release soon to fix this and a couple of other issues that have cropped up.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].