Help with Wilson II

Hello,

I am new to 3d printing and decided on sourcing all of the parts for a Wilson II rather than going with a kit, since I felt like I would get more out of the experience.

I think my BOM covers everything, but I am not sure and would appreciate it if someone looked it over. Also, I don't know if i cheaped out / spent too much on some of the parts (ex. getting the 2560, lcd, RAMPS, and stepper drivers all for under $30). I didn't buy anything yet so I can still switch out parts. (To clear up possible confusion, there are two price columns, since I have a friend that is thinking of getting one too.) BOM: [goo.gl]

Also, I noticed that extending the y axis (depth) of the printer would be around $2 (since the belt is 1150mm and the smooth rods are sold in 3' lengths, I would only have to buy extra 2020). Is it worth extending the y axis from 200mm to ~350mm even if the heated bed is only 200x200mm. I would only rarely print something larger than that, but I feel like for the $2 its worth it to have.

P.S. Please don't flame for making a noob mistake, as this is my first post and first 3d printer .

-Dane M

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2015 11:40PM by awesomed1.

I am in the same position of you, as a neophyte that is considering building a Wilson II from scratch, so I appreciate the BOM you listed.

A couple of issues so far:

1. Wouldn't the smoothed rods you listed in your BOM be too soft for use with linear bearings? They are listed as hardness Rockwell B89, but are heat treatable up to C62. While much more expensive, would something like Mcmaster Carr 6112K47 (hardened steel shaft) be more appropriate?
2. You don't list shipping from quite a few places. I imagine that the final shipping charges from Mcmaster for long rods will run more than $20. They don't give you shipping charges until they actually ship the item. I know you can call them to get a quote.

I will play with your BOM and try to post my version of it after I ponder it for a spell. I don't know anyone with a 3d printer atm, so I am forced to buy a Wilson II printed parts kit.

Jeremy

@tempest

From a few posts on these forums, most people recommend 88625K69, 5544T312, or 6112K47. I decided to go with the cheapest option since it seemed popular and didn't break the bank, but yes the 6112K47 would be better (if I had the money). I'm still debating on where to buy the smooth rods and which ones to buy.

I included shipping from everywhere that had shipping prices without me needing to actually buy the product, but I didn't know mcmaster charged that much. Thanks for the heads up!

One thing that wasn't on the original BOM list from Marty Rice (unless I missed it) was a step down converter from 12v to 5v for the servo. He mentions it in his last assembly video so I thought I would let you know just in case.

Wow those parts are expensive! You might want to try and find a local university / company that can print them for cheaper, since all the parts probably cost ~$20-25 to print.

Hope everything goes well!

Thanks for the tip about the step down! I should have my version of the BOM finished today then. One thing to note, one of the bearings "624RS" is actually "624-2RS". I think the item in your BOM was the only real hit for 624RS, so you aren't limited to just one aliexpress vendor.
Right now working on the 8mm lead screw. Any thoughts on lead screw vs plain threaded rod (as in your BOM) for this printer?

The Wilson II uses a lead screw instead of threaded rod. The BOM was originally for the Wilson TS, and when I changed the link and description to the THSL-300-8D, I forgot to change the name from Threaded rod to Lead screw. I'm pretty sure the printed parts are made to use the lead screw and lead screw nut rather than a rod, so I would just stick to something like the THSL-300-8D (which Rice recommends).

I picked those bearings specifically since they were the cheapest I found .

Why do you call for a 200x200mm heatbed instead of the 200x300mm MK1 that mjrice uses?

Those are easier to find, cheaper, and more versatile, since they would fit on most any Prusa i3. Also, I would rarely print something that large, so I opted to go for a 200x200mm heatbed. If you find a not crazy expensive 200x300mm heatbed I would appreciate the link. Also, I haven't solidified my power supply, and until I do I might not be able to get a larger heatbed.

Edit: I noticed that a cork board insulator was recommended for under the heatbed, but I think I'm going to use some cardboard instead (since its free). Any thoughts?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 08:25PM by awesomed1.

Sourcing an inexpensive 200x300mm heatbed has been problematic. I will probably go with this one made in the US for $34.99. I would need to add a thermistor, LED, and Solid-state relay. I wonder if I should just use a silicone hotbed.

This post seems to indicate the using cardboard under your heatbed is workable. I will probably do the same for the time being (to save money for the damned heatbed). I imagine with the glass on top of the heater, you wouldn't have any issues with the cardboard not being perfectly flat.

I am also going with a slightly more expensive stepper motor than the one in your BOM, with the detailed specs listed here. I am leery of motors for which proper rpm/torque curves are not available.

Do you have any thoughts on the LCD12864 ($2 more with the vendor you chose) vs LCD2004? As an engineer I am distrustful of a $30 electronics kit without data about what corners were cut to get to that price. I suppose it is a proverbial roll of the dice.

I will probably use something like this mouser.com for my power supply $34.83 + shipping. I use this line of PSU's in my dayjob, and I they have been solid performers. In the short term, I may just string together a few mean-well 12V 5A PSU's I have laying around.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 11:56PM by tempest.

If you are wary of the Aliexpress listing for the electronics, I saw a kit on Amazon that was "Fulfilled by Amazon" and my understanding is that they do returns, not the original seller. I agree that getting all of the electronics seems shady, but Aliexpress's return / refunds program doesn't seem that bad. Also, some people said that they called their credit card company which refunded the payment.

Mr. Rice, the designer of the Wilson, said in one of his videos (one of the update videos for the Wilson TS?) that he liked the 2004 better since it was quicker (less lag) and didn't show any less information than he wanted.

As for the heatbed, I think im sticking with the smaller board in that case. It is $15 on easyreprap for the heatbed, transistor, led, and wires.

Thanks!

Your BOM calls for LM8UU instead of the LM10UU. You either need to change that or move down to 8mm smoothed rods. I will be ordering this LM10UU from aliexpress for $10.97.
I have begun ordering the parts that will ship from china, so hopefully I can do this over x-mas.

My version of the BOM (Still only sparsely populated).

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2015 09:25PM by tempest.

Again a life saver; the linear bearings are probably from when this BOM was for the Wilson TS. Thanks! I'll (hopefully) remember to change that later.

I'm probably going to start ordering parts in the next day or two (also trying to finish before Christmas / the end of the year).

I have seen a lot of people go for larger build volumes than the standard 200x300x200 mm, and I think I'm going to go for a 270x380x200mm build volume (it maximizes the use of the smooth rods since they come in 3ft length). I'll probably only have a 200x200mm heatbed to start and then add another (in parallel) later. Any thoughts?

Edit: Another thing, where are you sourcing the nuts and bolts? When I was doing this with a friend, it cost ~ $20 each to order from Boltdepot (except for t slot nuts from Aliexpress). But for only one person its ~ $30.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2015 11:18PM by awesomed1.

I believe this aliexpress vendor would work for the M10 smoothed rods (hardened and chrome plated). It would cost $60.76 for two full sets cut to length. You may get something for not too much more for the new dimensions you are looking at. I have sent queries to a couple of vendors for precise quotes for the default lengths. I will update this thread when I hear back from them.

I haven't even started on nuts and bolts. I may be able to purchase many of them from my company, as we probably keep some in inventory. I wonder if I can substitute any customary parts for the metric.

I believe that you would need to go the solid state relay route to power two standard beds, since the standard RAMPS kit is limited to 11A. The 200x300 I am considering lists 10-12A in its spec, so I may just replace the fuse and hope it doesn't catch fire.

If you are aiming for x-mas, you probably want to avoid ordering anything with "small packet plus" or "aliexpress standard" shipping.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 12:29AM by tempest.

The nuts and bolts: As a first stab at it, I can probably use an assortment pack of some sort for most of them. Something like this from ebay.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 12:45AM by tempest.

For the smooth rods I think going with McMaster is the cheapest option I saw at $33, including $10 for shipping (lets hope shipping isn't more than that).

For the extra amperage required, I think Marty Rice up his 2 heatbeds in parallel, meaning it doesn't use any more voltage, but twice the current. He just put a heatsink on the mosfet and it seemed to do fine. I'll probably look into solid state relays, but Rice's way seems easier.

Well my goal is just sometime during winter break; hopefully everything will come in time If I order soon.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 12:57AM by awesomed1.

I am building a Wilson TS from a kit that I purchased on eBay. I elected to buy it from the designer of the Wilson Reprap printers in Ohio. I am happy with the completeness, quality of his parts and components and his identification labels. At first, looking at that maze of parts, those labels on everything were reassuring but maybe 30% into the build the parts became familiar and the labels were not as important. The straight rods he supplied were clean and true as were the threaded rods. From what others have said the motors he includes are excellent. The linear bearings were typical items you can get from 100s of eBay sellers. A couple of the bearings, while new and still wrapped, were gritty and noisy. I then ordered a group of spare linear bearings on eBay and in the new group, once again, a few of them were also not good. I was glad I had a number of spares of that particular item from which to choose the best ones. The Wilson TS uses 8 mm rods. Those 8 mm linear bearings have very tiny balls in them that must be difficult to assemble. I believe the Wilson II uses 10 mm rods (sorry, I did not read the BOM list) and perhaps 10 mm linear bearings are easier to assemble and therefore maybe they are, as a rule, better , as a rule, usually better. (?)

With working from home and family I get interrupted and distracted continuously. I had misplaced a couple screws and nuts. Once you drop a 2 mm or even 3 mm item they are tough to find even with a magnet. I did have to buy a few spares at a local hardware store. Surprised at the cost buying them individually, I was glad I only had to buy a couple individually.

I did look long and hard at sourcing everything individually. When I added up the cost of everything included in his kit vs the cost and time of ordering it all elsewhere, I did not see much savings. For me it worked best that I built my kit from the parts the seller had put together in the kit. Like you, when done I will know every nut, bolt, bearing, belt, wire, connector, spring and plastic part on the printer. All the parts are correct for the task and it was great to open one carton, get organized, watch his videos and start building. The plastic parts were very good with excellent tolerances in the hole sizes. The printer went together very little hole re-drilling or filing. One Y axis end arrived broken and Marty replaced it in the matching color very quickly. After getting accustomed with working with the printed parts I realized I could reinforce a couple of other points on some other pieces with super glue and it worked perfectly.

One other detail was the electronics included: Maybe you are going to select Rambo or Melzi or Geetech electronics but if you will be getting "standard Mega and RAMPS", while they are standardized, they are not necessarily identical. Some RAMPS boards come with the little jumper blocks you may need and some do not. As Marty Rice points out in his Wilson TS build videos, some RAMPS boards come with a diode on the board for allowing you to use the cooling fan full time or (maybe it was to be able to use the SD card in the display, I forgot now) and one RAMPS board may have that included while another may have holes there but no diode in place. Regardless, as a complete beginner it is nice to know you have all the right items with no brain damage or additional time wasted.

My particular kit was specifically sold as being not 100% complete. It did not come with a build plate or hot end. The idea for this particular kit was to let the builder get what they wanted for those items. Deciding glass vs aluminum and finding out later that I needed to know what thermistor I had for Marlin added extra time to the build. The hot end caused me a bit of cash as I was undecided and bought a few of them to eventually try. As you are probably aware, no matter if an overseas seller says "e-packet" or whatever, some of the items I ordered to try out took a wide range of time to arrive from 12 days to 6 weeks. I would not wanted to have waited for all the build components to arrive like that. Marty's current kits for the Wilson II may or may not now include those items I selected and order separately.

That all being said, it sounds like I zipped through my build and am merrily printing away. Nope, not yet. Unfortunately, everything in my life comes ahead of actually finishing this printer. :-( As work comes in, those jobs take priority as do car repairs, lawn maintenance, household repairs, groceries, cooking, an evening out with the wife, and of course, our children and grand children. Even raking leaves takes priority over completing the Wilson TS printer. Sigh. :-) In evenings recently, instead of finishing the last few steps I have now been sidetracked studying how to use CAD to design parts to make with the printer. I selected ViaCad v9 2D3D. It is amazing what can be done with this program but the learning curve, at least for me, has been steep. I looked at many other programs before deciding and I just liked the seemingly endless flexibility this one has to design parts I will eventually be printing. The CAD program is a real priority because I need it to start printing Items I want to design and produce as soon as I get the last few steps of the printer completed and set-up Marlin. I also bought Simplify 3D which looks to be a great program to make this all easier eventually.

Good luck and have fun with your build. Either way we can both then customize our printers after we know what we really want or need to change since we both will know every bit of the basic printer.

@SignGuy Thanks for the info. What price are kits going for? I didn't see any on ebay (I didn't really look to hard either ).

Do you guys know what we need the 40x40x10mm fan for? Is it to replace the 30x30mm fan that the E3d lite6 comes with?

Thanks SignGuy! I couldn't find a Wilson II kit for the life of me when I was looking. I would have likely ordered one if I had found one of quality, since time spent sourcing everything is a pretty serious hidden cost. I must say though, building the BOM appeals to my special brand of OCD.

Apparently Marty does sell complete Wilson II kits in his Tindie store and on ebay ($485 + shipping).

@tempest

I think there are 3 fans. One 30mm fan to cool the hotend, one 40mm fan to cool the print as it is printed, and one 80mm fan to cool the ramps and other electronics. The fan in this picture is for cooling the print with the fan duct and you can barely see the fan on the hotend cooling it down, so both are needed.

Thanks for the link to the tindie store. His most likely uses higher quality components, but I think i'm sticking to sourcing the parts myself.

Edit: there are some fans for cheap on ebay but they all ship from china .

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2015 11:24AM by awesomed1.

I have observed that Marty will have his kits in various colors on for a while then off of eBay. My presumption is that, like everyone else, he has family, work, and travel obligations to work around with his eBay sales. My experience is that he is extremely good about doing precisely what he says and keeping commitments. I presume he lists items only when he can handle the transactions (making, packaging etc.) correctly. When he had Wilson II kits on a week ago (around Nov 16th, 2015 or thereabouts) I believe they were $485 but I did not look at the details of what items may (or may not) be needed after that. Regardless, I consider his design and his prices to be a great value.

I am looking forward to reading about anyone who has operated or owns both a Wilson TS and the Wilson II. I am very happy with the rear brackets Marty designed to make the Wilson TS more rigid that I have on mine but that double frame on the Wilson II looks more rigid yet. The big thing I am curious about are those 10 mm smooth rods and the Acme screws and nuts on the Z axis as opposed to the small threaded rod with nuts we use on the Wilson TS. Those differences have to add up to an overall smother operation, perhaps less frequency vibration, less noise in operation being more sturdy everywhere, a longer life. I presume that those changes all add up to allowing users of the Wilson II to run faster print speeds but I have not seen anything confirming that supposition. Anybody have any experience of seen any comments in that regard?

You are probably right about Rice not being able to supply the kit all of the time, and as of yesterday I didn't see anything on his eBay store.

The extra sturdiness and 10mm rods are the reason I went with the Wilson II over the TS. I haven't heard anything about less noise or better prints, but I would imagine it's true since the lead screws are more precise Han threaded rods and the thicker smooth rods would be sturdier.

Just a warning in case you used the same vendor as I did.
The lead screw kit that I purchased from the eBay link in my bom is out of spec. The brass nut's internal diameter is around 0.2mm larger than the 8mm trapezoidal spec allows. This makes the nut *very* loose.

Now I need to source just the nuts... Tricky.

In USA, Ace hardware has a great selection for pennies.

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tempest
Just a warning in case you used the same vendor as I did.
The lead screw kit that I purchased from the eBay link in my bom is out of spec. The brass nut's internal diameter is around 0.2mm larger than the 8mm trapezoidal spec allows. This makes the nut *very* loose.

Now I need to source just the nuts... Tricky.

Thanks for the heads up.

Good idea going to Ace hardware.

@tempest

If you are using the same kit for the electronics as I am, you might want to pick one that had more orders with a similar shipping time, since after 5 days it still didn't ship yet. Just something to look into.

The one in my bom shipped in two days. Just cancel and order another, that is what I did for one aliexpress order. I cancelled the gearbest one since it was still processing at 9 days.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will check Ace.

Thanks I just checked my gearbest order and it's still processing. I'll probably cancel the order for that and the electronics and order them somewhere else tonight..

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awesomed1
Another thing, where are you sourcing the nuts and bolts? When I was doing this with a friend, it cost ~ $20 each to order from Boltdepot (except for t slot nuts from Aliexpress). But for only one person its ~ $30.

This is probably too late, but I just found my answer to this. For everything but the t-nuts and matching bolts (aliexpress), I am buying from MrMetric.com. Good individual piece prices and $6.00 shipping from the US.

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tempest

Quote
awesomed1
Another thing, where are you sourcing the nuts and bolts? When I was doing this with a friend, it cost ~ $20 each to order from Boltdepot (except for t slot nuts from Aliexpress). But for only one person its ~ $30.

This is probably too late, but I just found my answer to this. For everything but the t-nuts and matching bolts (aliexpress), I am buying from MrMetric.com. Good individual piece prices and $6.00 shipping from the US.

I already ordered from BoltDepot, which seems to have similar (maybe a little higher) pricing. Thanks anyways (for next time).