Ormerod - Z axis stalling, X axis not homing and grinding, Tilting Nozzle Problems and Lumpy prints
Posted by Paul_Avery
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Ormerod - Z axis stalling, X axis not homing and grinding, Tilting Nozzle Problems and Lumpy prints August 31, 2014 09:49PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 23 |
Hi all,
I need some help with my Ormerod. I've had it up and running since the start of April however there has always been problems, with (I think) the motors and nozzle. I've only been able to do about 2 or 3 small successful prints since it's been up and running, and seeing as I aim to use my printer for my final year at uni I really need to try and fix these problems with your help.
1) Firstly, the Z axis, when moving up sometimes stalls and the gears on the motor and shaft tend to slip/grind. Does anyone know what could be causing this? I've checked to make sure everything is built correctly and seen if anything is blocking the bearing from sliding smoothly up the rod, even applied lubricant but still get the problem. I've also checked to make sure that the Z runner mount bearing is not too tight.
2) The X axis proximity sensor seems to be very temperamental. The connection of the pin which connects to the top of it seems a tad loose but it's in as far as it can go. When I 'Home X' the hot end carriage moves all the way across and sometimes homes correctly, but sometimes it keeps on going and causes the carriage to max out and hits the end, but the motor keeps turning and makes an awful grinding noise for about 3 seconds where the pulley gear is grinding on the pulley. Any help would be great as I'm worried it will cause a lot of damage. If it's any help this mostly happens when my printer has been on for around 30 minutes to an hour when the extruder and bed are up to temperature.
3) The nozzle (the whole carriage) doesn't sit straight but tilts quite a bit. I think the problem is the bearing on the carriage which is supposed to rest against the X axis acrylic. My bearing seems to be about 1-2mm away, meaning that by the time the bearing touches the acrylic, the hot end carriage is tilting. This causes the fan duct to catch my prints lifting them off the bed as it's closer to the bed than the nozzle.
4) Finally, when I manage to get my Ormerod to print, it stops and starts. The stopping last from anyone between 1 - 5 seconds after about 10 seconds of smooth printing, meaning that the layers start to melt and extra plastic oozes out whilst the nozzle sits still, causing bumps/lumps around the outside or insides of my prints. Is this due to a lack of power at some points?
Sorry for all the questions but I really want to get my printer running smoothly. If anyone out there knows how to fix these issues, or even one of them I would greatly appreciate it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2014 09:57PM by Paul_Avery.
I need some help with my Ormerod. I've had it up and running since the start of April however there has always been problems, with (I think) the motors and nozzle. I've only been able to do about 2 or 3 small successful prints since it's been up and running, and seeing as I aim to use my printer for my final year at uni I really need to try and fix these problems with your help.
1) Firstly, the Z axis, when moving up sometimes stalls and the gears on the motor and shaft tend to slip/grind. Does anyone know what could be causing this? I've checked to make sure everything is built correctly and seen if anything is blocking the bearing from sliding smoothly up the rod, even applied lubricant but still get the problem. I've also checked to make sure that the Z runner mount bearing is not too tight.
2) The X axis proximity sensor seems to be very temperamental. The connection of the pin which connects to the top of it seems a tad loose but it's in as far as it can go. When I 'Home X' the hot end carriage moves all the way across and sometimes homes correctly, but sometimes it keeps on going and causes the carriage to max out and hits the end, but the motor keeps turning and makes an awful grinding noise for about 3 seconds where the pulley gear is grinding on the pulley. Any help would be great as I'm worried it will cause a lot of damage. If it's any help this mostly happens when my printer has been on for around 30 minutes to an hour when the extruder and bed are up to temperature.
3) The nozzle (the whole carriage) doesn't sit straight but tilts quite a bit. I think the problem is the bearing on the carriage which is supposed to rest against the X axis acrylic. My bearing seems to be about 1-2mm away, meaning that by the time the bearing touches the acrylic, the hot end carriage is tilting. This causes the fan duct to catch my prints lifting them off the bed as it's closer to the bed than the nozzle.
4) Finally, when I manage to get my Ormerod to print, it stops and starts. The stopping last from anyone between 1 - 5 seconds after about 10 seconds of smooth printing, meaning that the layers start to melt and extra plastic oozes out whilst the nozzle sits still, causing bumps/lumps around the outside or insides of my prints. Is this due to a lack of power at some points?
Sorry for all the questions but I really want to get my printer running smoothly. If anyone out there knows how to fix these issues, or even one of them I would greatly appreciate it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2014 09:57PM by Paul_Avery.
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Re: Ormerod - Z axis stalling, X axis not homing and grinding, Tilting Nozzle Problems and Lumpy prints September 01, 2014 01:57AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 378 |
1) Have you checked that the nut travels smoothly along the threaded rod? If that is not lubricated and clean, dirt and crap can get in the threads and wear it down, and often causing it to jam in specific locations.
2) The stock IR sensor is a bit tricky to get running right, but I never had such big difficulties with it. You should check the sensor reading (with the G31 command) when the probe is above the "homing tab" on the Z carriage, as well as close to the surface, to make sure it is enough to trigger. Also, what is your G31 setting in config.g? That controls the "threshold value" required to trigger the probe when homing. A loose cable would obviously mess it all up as well.
As for other things to check, have you applied some white tape/paint/similar to the target surfaces? Also, it is sensitive to other IR light sources (incandescent lights and sunlight), make sure you don't have any lightbulbs shining on the printer and not too much sunlight around.
You say the X motor pulley turns and the belt is skipping teeth when "grinding". If the belt tension is correct, the motor should normally be skipping. It might be hard to tell the difference though.
3) The position of the bearing on the back of the X carriage can be adjusted with that screw, you should be able to move it a millimeter or two inwards. If that isn't enough, I would guess some part is defective or bent, or the printer isn't assembled correctly. Pictures would be useful for troubleshooting.
4) That smells like a firmware/software issue. What Duet firmware are you using? Are you printing from web interface or via USB?
2) The stock IR sensor is a bit tricky to get running right, but I never had such big difficulties with it. You should check the sensor reading (with the G31 command) when the probe is above the "homing tab" on the Z carriage, as well as close to the surface, to make sure it is enough to trigger. Also, what is your G31 setting in config.g? That controls the "threshold value" required to trigger the probe when homing. A loose cable would obviously mess it all up as well.
As for other things to check, have you applied some white tape/paint/similar to the target surfaces? Also, it is sensitive to other IR light sources (incandescent lights and sunlight), make sure you don't have any lightbulbs shining on the printer and not too much sunlight around.
You say the X motor pulley turns and the belt is skipping teeth when "grinding". If the belt tension is correct, the motor should normally be skipping. It might be hard to tell the difference though.
3) The position of the bearing on the back of the X carriage can be adjusted with that screw, you should be able to move it a millimeter or two inwards. If that isn't enough, I would guess some part is defective or bent, or the printer isn't assembled correctly. Pictures would be useful for troubleshooting.
4) That smells like a firmware/software issue. What Duet firmware are you using? Are you printing from web interface or via USB?
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Re: Ormerod - Z axis stalling, X axis not homing and grinding, Tilting Nozzle Problems and Lumpy prints September 01, 2014 03:59AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Hi Paul, welcome to the forum.
jstk has given you lots of good advice in the previous reply. I have just a few things to add:
1. I had this problem when the Z gears were too tight. With the power off, lift the X axis off the nut on the threaded rod and prop it up e.g. by putting a box on the bed. You should then be able to rotate the threaded rod by hand easily, and it should not stick at any particular point of the rotation of the Z gears. If it does stick, then either the gears are too tight or the stepper motor is binding. To find out which, lift the threaded rod and driven gear off the bearing, then see whether the stepper motor shaft rotates easily.
2. Also check that the IR sensor head (the black component at the bottom of the proximity sensor board) is square to the board. If you already have white paper/tape/paint on top of the homing tab, then when the sensor head is over the homing tab you can check the spacing between them. If it is more than about 1mm you could reduce it by sticking a piece of white card on top of the homing tab. But this shouldn't be necessary unless you have set your G31 P parameter too high.
3. When you loosen the screw that holds the X runner bearing, can it slide the full length of the slot in the X carriage? To get the full adjustment range, you may need to fettle out the nut trap under the slot. To prevent head sag, some of us have had to replace the 9mm X runner bearing by a 10mm 623 bearing, as well as moving the screw to the end of the slot nearest the X plate.
4. That can be symptomatic of printing over USB using the un-patched version of Pronterface. It could also be caused by having USB debug output enabled and the PC being too busy to process the received data fast enough. Check that your config.g file contains M111 S0, not M111 S1.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2014 04:00AM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
jstk has given you lots of good advice in the previous reply. I have just a few things to add:
1. I had this problem when the Z gears were too tight. With the power off, lift the X axis off the nut on the threaded rod and prop it up e.g. by putting a box on the bed. You should then be able to rotate the threaded rod by hand easily, and it should not stick at any particular point of the rotation of the Z gears. If it does stick, then either the gears are too tight or the stepper motor is binding. To find out which, lift the threaded rod and driven gear off the bearing, then see whether the stepper motor shaft rotates easily.
2. Also check that the IR sensor head (the black component at the bottom of the proximity sensor board) is square to the board. If you already have white paper/tape/paint on top of the homing tab, then when the sensor head is over the homing tab you can check the spacing between them. If it is more than about 1mm you could reduce it by sticking a piece of white card on top of the homing tab. But this shouldn't be necessary unless you have set your G31 P parameter too high.
3. When you loosen the screw that holds the X runner bearing, can it slide the full length of the slot in the X carriage? To get the full adjustment range, you may need to fettle out the nut trap under the slot. To prevent head sag, some of us have had to replace the 9mm X runner bearing by a 10mm 623 bearing, as well as moving the screw to the end of the slot nearest the X plate.
4. That can be symptomatic of printing over USB using the un-patched version of Pronterface. It could also be caused by having USB debug output enabled and the PC being too busy to process the received data fast enough. Check that your config.g file contains M111 S0, not M111 S1.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2014 04:00AM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Ormerod - Z axis stalling, X axis not homing and grinding, Tilting Nozzle Problems and Lumpy prints September 02, 2014 10:18AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 23 |
Okay,
Thanks for your help guys. I've cleaned up the Z threaded rod and nut and you were right there was crap in it, but now it's running smoothly. As for the tilt on the X carriage, I will have to put a larger X runner bearing on (10mm) as the stock bearing is simply not getting close enough to the X arm.
However I am still having issues with homing. I really don't understand what's going on. I've updated everything to the latest firmware and made sure the SD card is being run on start up, made sure the M558 P1 code for activating the probe is run on start up by manually entering it into the Arduino serial monitor, sent a few G31 codes with the Z value at different heights to prove that the IR sensor is picking up light and definitely working, I've put white tape over the bits sticking out of the Z carriage for the probe to pick it up easier, yet still not working. Ever since this problem started it has not once homed properly. I don't know what else I can do :/
I've taken a video and attached a screenshot of my serial monitor to show you what is happening to give you guys a better understanding.
Video: [youtu.be]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2014 10:20AM by Paul_Avery.
Thanks for your help guys. I've cleaned up the Z threaded rod and nut and you were right there was crap in it, but now it's running smoothly. As for the tilt on the X carriage, I will have to put a larger X runner bearing on (10mm) as the stock bearing is simply not getting close enough to the X arm.
However I am still having issues with homing. I really don't understand what's going on. I've updated everything to the latest firmware and made sure the SD card is being run on start up, made sure the M558 P1 code for activating the probe is run on start up by manually entering it into the Arduino serial monitor, sent a few G31 codes with the Z value at different heights to prove that the IR sensor is picking up light and definitely working, I've put white tape over the bits sticking out of the Z carriage for the probe to pick it up easier, yet still not working. Ever since this problem started it has not once homed properly. I don't know what else I can do :/
I've taken a video and attached a screenshot of my serial monitor to show you what is happening to give you guys a better understanding.
Video: [youtu.be]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2014 10:20AM by Paul_Avery.
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Re: Ormerod - Z axis stalling, X axis not homing and grinding, Tilting Nozzle Problems and Lumpy prints September 02, 2014 10:54AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Paul:
1. Did you do this, as I suggested in my previous response:
>>
2. Also check that the IR sensor head (the black component at the bottom of the proximity sensor board) is square to the board. If you already have white paper/tape/paint on top of the homing tab, then when the sensor head is over the homing tab you can check the spacing between them. If it is more than about 1mm you could reduce it by sticking a piece of white card on top of the homing tab. But this shouldn't be necessary unless you have set your G31 P parameter too high.
<<
2. When you have the head clear of the bed, if you slowly move the x-carriage towards the Z axis, you should see the Z probe reading increase sharply as the sensor head moves over the white tape on the homing tab. Do you? The Z probe reading is easiest to monitor in the web interface, otherwise you have to keep sending G31 commands to get the reading.
3. Which firmware are you using, and do you have the Z probe blue wire connected to the pin on the expansion connector that is correct for that firmware? The pin changed when the firmware version increase to 0.78.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2014 11:28AM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
1. Did you do this, as I suggested in my previous response:
>>
2. Also check that the IR sensor head (the black component at the bottom of the proximity sensor board) is square to the board. If you already have white paper/tape/paint on top of the homing tab, then when the sensor head is over the homing tab you can check the spacing between them. If it is more than about 1mm you could reduce it by sticking a piece of white card on top of the homing tab. But this shouldn't be necessary unless you have set your G31 P parameter too high.
<<
2. When you have the head clear of the bed, if you slowly move the x-carriage towards the Z axis, you should see the Z probe reading increase sharply as the sensor head moves over the white tape on the homing tab. Do you? The Z probe reading is easiest to monitor in the web interface, otherwise you have to keep sending G31 commands to get the reading.
3. Which firmware are you using, and do you have the Z probe blue wire connected to the pin on the expansion connector that is correct for that firmware? The pin changed when the firmware version increase to 0.78.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2014 11:28AM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Ormerod - Z axis stalling, X axis not homing and grinding, Tilting Nozzle Problems and Lumpy prints September 02, 2014 11:22AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 23 |
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Re: Ormerod - Z axis stalling, X axis not homing and grinding, Tilting Nozzle Problems and Lumpy prints September 02, 2014 01:13PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 859 |
Hi.... If your wanting a quick and simple fix for that stupid Bearing on the X-axis, behind the X-Carriage, then print these sleeves:-
[www.thingiverse.com]
I did them to get me out of a hole one time, when I couldn't get replacement bearings easily... They print as a group, so just pick the best one of the batch,
then remove the 9mm bearing from the carriage, and the 10mm Y idler... Sleeve the 9mm, and place it on the Y-idler, and fit the 10mm bearing on the back of the x-carriage.
I did mine about 5 months ago, and they are still going strong....
As for the Z-axis threaded rod, I've tried WD40, 3in1, but now use Copper Slip anti sieze paste.... and it's great... I use one of the long 5mm nuts you can get on Ebay....
And as for the binding of the gears.... If you've printed the herring-bone gears which are really good, but the wiggle or bind, then check your Z axis is 90' to the table.
I printed my first set, and they were terrible.... So tight they wouldn't turn. I then discovered later by chance that the Z axis was out of true.... I lined it back up (ok gave it a shove), printed the gears again and they were perfect...
I travel alot, and the printer comes with me... So with all the different places I go, the IR Probes just weren't for me. I changed to micro-switches, sensing the tilt of the X-carriage to set the Z axis. It works a treat, and I can't remember when I last had to home the Z axis myself....
Like you, I had allot of problems in the beginning.... It's tricky to get the printer working first time when your new to it, but as things progress you'll find that you can pick up on things more and more quickly, and soon you'll be printing at the drop of a hat.... I think the big advantage we have is DCs firmware.... I suspect he sleeps with his Laptop beside the bed....
Kim
Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete
[www.thingiverse.com]
I did them to get me out of a hole one time, when I couldn't get replacement bearings easily... They print as a group, so just pick the best one of the batch,
then remove the 9mm bearing from the carriage, and the 10mm Y idler... Sleeve the 9mm, and place it on the Y-idler, and fit the 10mm bearing on the back of the x-carriage.
I did mine about 5 months ago, and they are still going strong....
As for the Z-axis threaded rod, I've tried WD40, 3in1, but now use Copper Slip anti sieze paste.... and it's great... I use one of the long 5mm nuts you can get on Ebay....
And as for the binding of the gears.... If you've printed the herring-bone gears which are really good, but the wiggle or bind, then check your Z axis is 90' to the table.
I printed my first set, and they were terrible.... So tight they wouldn't turn. I then discovered later by chance that the Z axis was out of true.... I lined it back up (ok gave it a shove), printed the gears again and they were perfect...
I travel alot, and the printer comes with me... So with all the different places I go, the IR Probes just weren't for me. I changed to micro-switches, sensing the tilt of the X-carriage to set the Z axis. It works a treat, and I can't remember when I last had to home the Z axis myself....
Like you, I had allot of problems in the beginning.... It's tricky to get the printer working first time when your new to it, but as things progress you'll find that you can pick up on things more and more quickly, and soon you'll be printing at the drop of a hat.... I think the big advantage we have is DCs firmware.... I suspect he sleeps with his Laptop beside the bed....
Kim
Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete
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Re: Ormerod - Z axis stalling, X axis not homing and grinding, Tilting Nozzle Problems and Lumpy prints December 30, 2016 04:44AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2 |
Greetings All,
Just for the record, I installed a duet wifi and needed to reconfigure a few things and had the same issue with the x axis grinding when homing. After lots of pointless tweaking around I used dc42's advice and checked the "squareness" of the z probe to the board and sure enough it fixed the problem. Runs like a charm...
Cheers from West Oz,
((( (( (desertwalker) )) )))
Just for the record, I installed a duet wifi and needed to reconfigure a few things and had the same issue with the x axis grinding when homing. After lots of pointless tweaking around I used dc42's advice and checked the "squareness" of the z probe to the board and sure enough it fixed the problem. Runs like a charm...
Cheers from West Oz,
((( (( (desertwalker) )) )))
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