Dual Hot-End Heatsink Blocks....

Hi all,

Please forgive me, I am not at home (so I can't get my emails) and one of the users requesting this part (Paul) sent me an email showing his design, however I don't think it will work so to save time I thought I'd post it here.

I have been asked to make some dual hot-end mounts by a few builders. However, getting the right design is difficult, DC42 drew one up and it failed due to hole spacings, this was then redrawn and the Mk2 design worked and can be seen in a thread on the forum. The second user that requested seems to have fallen into the same trap and although the spacings worked on a sketch, when drawn up in cad they fail.

I have attached two PDF's below,

Document 1 is the one I don't think will work as the two 3mm holes are too close to the 5mm holes for the extruders (0.5mm)

Document 2 is the successful one I made for DC42.

Could the requester (Paul) please check and verify what part will be needed please.

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Although I am using the design in document 2, I think there is scope to amend document 1 to reduce the dimensions marked 7.5mm to 6.5mm or 6mm (which is the lowest you can go without the tapered brass nuts interfering) The heads of the nozzle mounting screws need to clear the brass Bowden ends, which means that each nozzle mounting screw hole needs to be at least 5.5mm from the adjacent nozzle hole, between centres.

I have not considered what effect these screw positions would have on the nozzle mount.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2014 04:54AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Modified, attached

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

DaveK
Thank you for checking my spec. You are right I put the wrong measurement on the diagram for nozzle holes C I attached an amended spec.

Thanks Paul

Printed part to check the dimensions.



Amended diagram



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2014 05:31AM by appjaws1.

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appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
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Amended, attached.

Hopefully this one will do it.

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Thank you DaveK, look forward to trying it out

Sorry for the mix up
Paul

---

appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

No probs, if this one works, I will hold it as a standard design for other users.


Dave

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

I'm using kraken now and I really think water cooling is to prefer, it would be easy to design a 3 way hot end in a line with water cooling.
one problem with the original ormerod design is to get the same level for all nozzles, the way kraken is designed solves that problem in an easy way.
I haven't printed so much yet so it could be that I change my mind later
/Joar

It wasn't hard to get the two nozzles at close to the same height during assembly of my dual nozzle head. Fine adjustment is possible by adjusting the relative tension on the two nozzle mounting screws. With 3 in-line nozzles, it would be important to get the 3 tips in the same plane, but that would be very easy to check during assembly.

I really don't see any need for the complexities of water cooling with a 2-head nozzle, although I concede that it might make sense for the 4-head Kraken. The main problem I see with the Kraken is the huge number of cables it needs. It would make more sense to control the heaters using a dedicated microcontroller mounted on the hot end, then you would need only 2 (thick) power conductors and 3 signal conductors between the Duet and the hot end.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I can confirm dc42's experience with z-adjusting of the two nozzles - really easy.

I lowered the nozzles onto a paper until one barely bites the paper. Then I grabbed the edge of the paper and pushed the edge from side to side, making the paper rotate on the lowest nozzle. Then you can tighten and untighten the two nozzle mounting screws ever so slightly and watch which nozzle the paper rotates about. I stopped the process, when the rotation moved from nozzle to nozzle by the very tiniest adjustment of a screw. I could not get both nozzles to "bite" the paper equally - I saw no problems during my test-print though. Probably the two nozzles will be way better aligned in Z than the flatness (or lack of) of the bed. Tightening one screw raises the nozzle in that side. We are talking very small changes here, as you are basically compressing the plastic in the nozzle-mount piece.

:-) Carsten

Quote
dc42
It wasn't hard to get the two nozzles at close to the same height during assembly of my dual nozzle head. Fine adjustment is possible by adjusting the relative tension on the two nozzle mounting screws. With 3 in-line nozzles, it would be important to get the 3 tips in the same plane, but that would be very easy to check during assembly.

I really don't see any need for the complexities of water cooling with a 2-head nozzle, although I concede that it might make sense for the 4-head Kraken. The main problem I see with the Kraken is the huge number of cables it needs. It would make more sense to control the heaters using a dedicated microcontroller mounted on the hot end, then you would need only 2 (thick) power conductors and 3 signal conductors between the Duet and the hot end.

¨
I agree it would be great to get rid of some cables, wouldnt this be great on the "original" solution as well?

I did a quick model of "ormken" the 3 headed kraken for ormerod it measure 60 x 23 x 20


[www.dropbox.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2014 05:17AM by Joar107.

Quote
Joar107
I agree it would be great to get rid of some cables, wouldnt this be great on the "original" solution as well?

Yes! Currently, the single-head solution needs 12 conductors (8 for the hot end connector and 4 for the Z probe connector). The heater wires are doubled up to take the current. My thought was to use 2 conductors for +12V and 2 for 12VGND as now, plus 3 signal wires (serial in, serial out, and signal ground). Total 7 conductors, so already a saving of 5.

For the dual nozzle hot end, I would run the 2 heaters in antiphase PWM at maximum 50% each. This is more than enough to reach ABS temperatures. Then there would be no need for further 12V conductors, so 7 conductors would still be enough. This contrasts with the 18 conductors I need at present.

For a 4 nozzle system, either add 2 more pairs of 12V and ground conductors (total 11), or use 2 thick conductors for 12V and 12VGND plus 3 thin ones for the signals.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Paul and Muggi, the dual blocks are in the post tomorrow

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Quote
Joar107

Quote
dc42
It wasn't hard to get the two nozzles at close to the same height during assembly of my dual nozzle head. Fine adjustment is possible by adjusting the relative tension on the two nozzle mounting screws. With 3 in-line nozzles, it would be important to get the 3 tips in the same plane, but that would be very easy to check during assembly.

I really don't see any need for the complexities of water cooling with a 2-head nozzle, although I concede that it might make sense for the 4-head Kraken. The main problem I see with the Kraken is the huge number of cables it needs. It would make more sense to control the heaters using a dedicated microcontroller mounted on the hot end, then you would need only 2 (thick) power conductors and 3 signal conductors between the Duet and the hot end.

¨
I agree it would be great to get rid of some cables, wouldnt this be great on the "original" solution as well?

I did a quick model of "ormken" the 3 headed kraken for ormerod it measure 60 x 23 x 20
[attachment 36602 orkan_ormerod.JPG]

[www.dropbox.com]

That water cooled block would likely be un-make able I think, to get the water passage from inlet to outlet would require cross-drilling and tapped end-plugs fitting to create the sealed passageway. It would need to be considerably chunkier.

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Thank you DaveK, the block fits well.
Paul

The picture shows the new aluminium cooling block made by DaveK , with my one piece, 2 vents hot end

---

appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

Davek
When will the Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks be available?
Lloyd

Hmmm - won't the plastic melt being that close to the heat blocks ...

Dave
(#106)

Quote
dmould
Hmmm - won't the plastic melt being that close to the heat blocks ...

I guess it depends on how good the cooling is. One thing I am learning is that the dual-nozzle arrangement needs better cooling than is provided using the standard RRP fan and heatsink duct with 3 air outlets. I'll post about this later in the other thread.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dmould
Hmmm - won't the plastic melt being that close to the heat blocks ...

Dave
(#106)

This is how I have been using my 1 nozzle 3 vents so I assumed that the same design would be OK for the 2 nozzle, 2 vent unit.

When I get it installed and running I'll keep an eye and see if it is a problem or not. If it is I may well need to redesign

Thanks for the comment
Paul

---

appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

I've come to realise that it would be better to increase the spacing between the nozzles. The disadvantages of increased nozzle spacing are that small changes in head angle in the X direction affect the relative height of the nozzles more (if that is a disadvantage), and the 2-colour print area is slightly reduced. The advantage is that in prints for which the non-printing nozzle passes over a recently-printed area (e.g. the traffic cone), the time between the printing and non-printing nozzles passing the same area will generally be increased, giving more time for the filament to cool in between. This cooling time is vital.

So my new dual nozzle design is based on my existing one (with the nozzle mounting screw holes outside the heatsink screw holes as before), but with the nozzle hole spacing increased to 22mm. I think that leaves just enough clearance (5mm) between the nozzle holes and the heatsink screw holes. I will turn the heater blocks over to avoid increasing the overall width. If a 3rd nozzle hole is included in the centre, then the same design can also be used for a single-nozzle hot end that fits the same nozzle mount.

DaveK, may I order a couple?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2014 11:54AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
ezwul
Davek
When will the Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks be available?
Lloyd

They are available now, I'm only making these to order though.

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Quote
dc42
I've come to realise that it would be better to increase the spacing between the nozzles. The disadvantages of increased nozzle spacing are that small changes in head angle in the X direction affect the relative height of the nozzles more (if that is a disadvantage), and the 2-colour print area is slightly reduced. The advantage is that in prints for which the non-printing nozzle passes over a recently-printed area (e.g. the traffic cone), the time between the printing and non-printing nozzles passing the same area will generally be increased, giving more time for the filament to cool in between. This cooling time is vital.

So my new dual nozzle design is based on my existing one (with the nozzle mounting screw holes outside the heatsink screw holes as before), but with the nozzle hole spacing increased to 22mm. I think that leaves just enough clearance (5mm) between the nozzle holes and the heatsink screw holes. I will turn the heater blocks over to avoid increasing the overall width. If a 3rd nozzle hole is included in the centre, then the same design can also be used for a single-nozzle hot end that fits the same nozzle mount.

DaveK, may I order a couple?

Of course, can you give me a checked sketch of your design please if you are moving to new measurements.?


Dave

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

I am interested in experimenting with this as well, can you let me know the price?
Lloyd

Quote
Davek0974
Of course, can you give me a checked sketch of your design please if you are moving to new measurements.?

Sure, here it is. The distance between the M5 and M3 tapped hole centres is 5mm, which I hope is enough as it should leave at least 1mm of solid metal between them where they cross.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
ezwul
I am interested in experimenting with this as well, can you let me know the price?
Lloyd

Hi

Of course, they are £10 plus £1 UK P&P.


Dave

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Quote
dc42

Quote
Davek0974
Of course, can you give me a checked sketch of your design please if you are moving to new measurements.?

Sure, here it is. The distance between the M5 and M3 tapped hole centres is 5mm, which I hope is enough as it should leave at least 1mm of solid metal between them where they cross.

Ok, that'll be £20 plus £1 P&P

If thats OK Then send payment in the usual way and I'll make them this weekend.

Dave

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Dave, I've decided to go for separate 1- and 2-nozzle designs, for better heat transfer (and this will reduce the amount of drilling and tapping you need to do). Here is the revised design. I'd like one of each please, and I'll send £21 via PayPal shortly.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42
Dave, I've decided to go for separate 1- and 2-nozzle designs, for better heat transfer (and this will reduce the amount of drilling and tapping you need to do). Here is the revised design. I'd like one of each please, and I'll send £21 via PayPal shortly.

No problem, thanks for the order and sketches

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

DaveK
PayPal money sent.
Is it possible to add the original centre hole back as per the original RRP design at 0mm offset from the centre.
If I decide not to pursue the dual nozzle experiments then I can just use it exactly the same as the original single nozzle RRP design.
Any additional money for that?
Thanks.
Lloyd

Quote
dc42
Dave, I've decided to go for separate 1- and 2-nozzle designs, for better heat transfer (and this will reduce the amount of drilling and tapping you need to do). Here is the revised design. I'd like one of each please, and I'll send £21 via PayPal shortly.

Like the attached drawing

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.