What NOT to Use for Wiping Glass Printing Surface

I could make a long post on the issues I have just gone through with PLA suddenly not sticking to glass after initially having great success but I can sum it up by saying a microfibre cloth I used to wipe the glass does not work and seems to deposit some tiny film on the surface that PLA will NOT stick to at all. I just about pulled my hair out till I discovered the cause .

From Wikipedia: "The most common types of microfibers are made from polyesters, polyamides (e.g., nylon, Kevlar, Nomex, trogamide), or a conjugation of polyester, polyamide, and polypropylene (Prolen)." Something in this prohibits PLA from sticking to the glass.

What does work very well for PLA is a plain kitchen paper towel and a solution I made a few years ago for cleaning my computer monitors. It has water and vinegar in it for sure but I think one more ingredient I can't remember. The glass is so clean it squeaks and the PLA grips aggressively to the 50-70C glass. The 5mm rings I print even exhibit some attraction to the cooled glass after they have been shifted from their original position by tapping them sideways at their base with a putty scraper. It's as though there is a vacuum under them that needs to be broken before the parts can let go of the glass.

I've learned that lesson!

I've been through a few products for cleaning the glass. My current best choice is Pure White Vinegar (5% Acetic acid and 95% Distilled water) and cheap paper tissues. Even this combination can leave a film if used aggressively. So, I clean the glass until it squeaks and leave it wet. The heated bed will drive off the remaining moisture and, as you noted, it is quite a chore to remove the printed part afterwards.

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I try to write with consideration for all nationalities. Please let me know if something is unclear.
Printing with Mendel90 from fedora 25 using Cura, FreeCAD, MeshLab, OpenSCAD, Skeinforge and Slic3r tools.

I had great success with paper kitchen towels until I (ok, my wife) changed brands. We went from a patterned one (Plenty/Bounty, I think) to a plain one, and the plain one started leaving residue. Someone said it could have been one of the bleaching agents but I've avoided them now to be sure.

There is a vacuum of one atmosphere holding parts down of course if the first layer is low enough to squash out all the air.

When printing on tape I also can get an electrostatic charge strong enough to hold a wades big gear upside down.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

when i first started i had issues with microfibre clothes doing the same, i finally got some lint free chemical free clothes that solved the exact same issue you had, but everything cleared up once i started using isoprop alcohol, even with the old microfiber cloths.

What about acetone?

Works for me.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Acetone for PLA printing?

For PLA you only need squeaky clean glass so anything that gets rid of grease should work.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I wonder if the cloth plays a role.
I used acetone with toilet paper, but the PLA doesnt stick well, then. I couldn't see any traces of paper, so it shouldn't matter, I thought.

Now I tried ordinary window cleaning lotion, based on anjon tensid/alcohol (I don't know the Enlish terms here).
That works well, and I used a kind of wowen synthetic cloth that is commonly used for cleaning tables and such.

I have eventually made some successful prints, and thing starts to work out!

/David

Wow! You are so right! I had some great results then nothing would stick, I was using a microfiber cloth. I swapped for kitchen roll and het presto perfect! I was banging my head for last 2 days, thanks so much!

Hi, i recently tried 24% acetic acid (for PLA), and it works GREAT!!!
I really recommend it. Things really stick to the plate.
This did it. It is *much* easier to get it work than with acetone.

I got this advice from a very nice Swedish electronics geek forum, and they used 12% acetic acid.

Sometimes this is called vinegar, which confuses me, since it is also a word for some cooking ingredient. I guess the latter contains other unwanted substances as well.

/David

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2013 04:48PM by dawa.

I think white vinegar is pretty much all acetic acid.

An interesting fact is people often eat salt with vinegar, e.g. salt and vinegar crisps. In that case the acetic acid reacts with the sodium chloride to form hydrochloric acid, which is stronger I think. Might seem alarming but that is what you have it in your stomach anyway.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I tried and really like the white vinegar (a kitchen paper towel). Easy to make the glass squeak. Left the glass wet with the vinegar. It dried and little crusts formed where some trace elements were left behind after the majority of acetic acid/water evaporated. PLA adhered well. I'm thinking to try misting the glass with the vinegar and let it evaporate to form those crusts. No wiping unless it's dirty? If I can make fine droplets on the glass maybe there will be uniform little crusts and the PLA might really like sticking to that? Another plus is vinegar is cheap, safe and easy to obtain. And you can put it on your battered fish!

The White Vinegar I use is 5% Acetic acid and 95% Distilled water. There should be no residue left by this combination and I only suggested leaving the glass surface damp because continued wiping can cause the tissue to disintegrate and leave particulate matter behind. I do not see anything left behind after this process. As for removing prints, with a decent area of bed contact, it is quite difficult. Even nophead's suggestion of 10 minutes in the freezer rarely persuades the objects to part from the glass.

Such is life. First we complain that objects do not stick... then we complain when they do!

Regards,
Neil Darlow

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I try to write with consideration for all nationalities. Please let me know if something is unclear.
Printing with Mendel90 from fedora 25 using Cura, FreeCAD, MeshLab, OpenSCAD, Skeinforge and Slic3r tools.

That is great adhesion Neil. May I ask is that PLA, and if so which brand? I have found of the brands I have tried so far that the Faberdashery supplied with the kit has the very best adhesion to glass. It starts cracking and popping loose from the glass at the lowest temperatures (others start cracking and popping at 45C-ish - the Faberdashery at 33C-ish). I take this to be superior in favor of the Faberdashery. Also, how are you removing the print? By hand just pulling? I use a putty scraper and - sliding it along the glass - tap at the base of the object. Thanks!

I am using White PLA from reprapsource.com. It has a matte finish compared to the satin finish of the Faberdashery product. I believe this has something to do with its adhesion.

For most prints of a decent height I can tease them off the glass with a twisting motion but smaller and flatter items require some sideways persuasion. I am not at the stage of nophead where sacrificial parts and a hammer are required... yet!

Regards,
Neil Darlow

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I try to write with consideration for all nationalities. Please let me know if something is unclear.
Printing with Mendel90 from fedora 25 using Cura, FreeCAD, MeshLab, OpenSCAD, Skeinforge and Slic3r tools.

Quote
neildarlow
I am using White PLA from reprapsource.com. It has a matte finish compared to the satin finish of the Faberdashery product. I believe this has something to do with its adhesion.

Nice. It says "4043D". I ordered some 4043D in a few colors from Ultimachine in the U.S. I would consider those quality filament. So far the two I have used (aside from the Faberdashery that came with the kit) have been cheap. They obviously are not high quality. Can't wait to try the good stuff.

Since Nophead supplies ABS gears I'm assuming he requires the sacrificial gear to hammer off an ABS gear. I'd like to know his treatment for the build surface. I don't imagine it is bare glass since ABS doesn't stick to glass right?

To print ABS on a stock kit I use PET tape. Some objects pop off when cold, others I remove by grabbing a flat side with adjustable pliers. Gears don't have any flat sides and I print them with 0.2 layers so they sometimes need to be knocked of with a hammer. Other times they pop off. It seems to be random. Objects sliced with 0.2mm layers stick much more than those sliced at 0.4.

To print ABS direct on glass I use a 15V PSU for the bed to get a higher first layer temperature, about 130C on the top surface of the glass. Those parts either pop off or get pulled off by hand. New glass does not work. It has to be primed by baking on very very dilute ABS juice and I wipe it between builds with the same juice. The more dilute it is the better it seems to work. My last batch was a 1.6g of ABS in 1L of acetone!

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Thank you Chris. Soon I will try your methods for ABS! The tip on baking the glass first with ABS juice first and using less than more is great. Contrary to my sometimes attitude of 'if a little helps, more will help more.' This will save me a lot of trial and error.