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Print Problem on two printers

Posted by iamthebest22 
Print Problem on two printers
January 14, 2018 09:16PM
Hi all, I am a long time fan of 3d printers, though I didn't get into the hobby until almost 1 year ago grinning smiley, now I am the proud owners of 7 different FDM 3d printers. I have had to solve many problems along the way and thus have learned alot. However recently two issues popped up that I just cannot for the life of me figure it out, I have spend at least 40+ hours on these issues, but just cannot figure it out. I will try to explain the problems the best to my abilities:

1st problem:
This is on my HEVO (Hypercube Evolution) that I personally built after the first 5 printers, and learned the most from it. The problem (with pics) is that I recently switch to S3D, and everytime, no matter what setting I use, near towards the middle top of the print (the doors) of the benchy, these "underextrusion" keeps popping up. Here are pictures to show what I mean:


I have also attached the two fff files I have used (there were more of course, but these two are the most recent) below. Any help is greatly appreciate, as I have printed over 20 benchies, just can't solve it. The parts I"m using are:
-Duet Wifi
-E3D V6 Hotend (authentic) with Titan Bowden setup

2nd problem:
I recently (after really liking CoreXY and DIY in a way) bought a Tronxy X5S and upgraded it. It's been working quite well, giving great prints, the problem however is the temperature on the hotend. Basically what happens is near the beginning, though sometimes randomly every 10-15 minutes during prints (I don't have Octopi connected to it so I don't have a log) though it often happens the most during the beginning, the temperature on the hotend would suddenly drop down between 8-10C (say if I want 200C, it would suddenly go to 192 to 190). Most of the time the printer would heat up just in time, but sometimes it would take too long and thus go into thermal runaway and reset. Right now I am printing off a SD (not micro) Card, I have tried a kingston and Sandisk SD card.
I am using a Geeetech GT2560 board to replace the old board, along with a BLtouch, along with two power supplies because the original is not strong enough to run everything at once.

Any help is greatly appreciated, as I am almost to the point of pulling my hair out. Thank you very much!
open | download - Hypercube Evolution 0.2mm.fff (12.9 KB)
open | download - Hypercube Evolution 0.15mm.fff (12.7 KB)
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 15, 2018 04:53AM
Problem 1.
Looks like the small layer issue not under extrusion. lots of blobs and filament draging because the sections are small. There is similar effects on the bow top, funnel and rear jack stand.
If you list the material and your settings we can get some comments from those who have succesful benchies.
Im tempted to say reduce temperatures, cooling fan on, reduce speed, revisit lift settings and retraction.

Problem 2.
Probably not an SD card issues as once its read the Gcode the controller is trying to maintain the target temperature.
Some thoughts:- over heating driver on the controler, loose wire, faulty Fet as discussed in another thread on Melzi board recently.
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 15, 2018 07:11AM
Hi MCcarman, I've attached my fff files in my first post, but I'll take pictures of my settings and post it up here since I realize not everyone have S3D after I get home from work (at work now). I can say real quick I'm using Zyltech PLA,
- Temp 210 all the way,
-Extrusion Width 0.40mm,
- Retraction settings is 4.00 mm retraction, 0.05 retration vertical Lift, 80mm/s REtraction speed
-printing speed 75mm/s

for Problem 2, as I mentioned I'm not using the Melzi board that came with it, I've replaced it with the Geeetech GT2560, unless that is also a Melzi board clone? I'm using bootlace ferrules on the screw terminals, controller temp is under 40 C because I'm using a blower fan to blow onto the board and stepper drivers.
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 15, 2018 04:56PM
Hi all, okay finally had time to take the pictures, here are all the settings in S3D., I have put them into my dropbox folder. Thank you very much.
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 16, 2018 05:15AM
Im not familiar with S3D but i would question some of the values.
Extrusion multiplier of 84% indicates theres some fundamental miscalculation that you are compensating for by reducing the filament flow. I would expect this to be much nearer 100%.
Extrusion width manualy set to the same as the nozle i always find odd. I run auto but otherwise i would have expected about 0.48mm
Retract vertical lift is a bit small at 0.05. I would suggest something to actualy clear the filament like 0.2mm.
Primary layer height at 0.15. OK its your call. 1st layer height at 130%. If thats 130% of 0.15 then its 0.195mm which can be sensetive to bed nozle gap and give 1st layer issues - but it can work.
Hot end temp 210 seems a bit high compared with some of the comments ive seen on here from other users. I would try reducing this. For PLA some are down at 185. Print a temperature test tower.
Adjust printing speed is set to 8sec. There was a suggestion on here resently to reduce this to about 3 secs so as to force slower speeds on small layers.
Only retract when crossing open spaces is checked - might be worth trying without this.

Some of the other settings may well work but can be confusing. For instance you have infil etc at 130%. Well thats doing a lot to compensate for setting the extrusion multiplier at 84%.

If im having issues that can be caused by settings I start with setting what i know to be true. So if i measured the filament diameter then that is set. I can calibrate the extuder and set that. Then my extrusion multiplier should be 100%. then move on to the other parameters to resolve issues.

Just my opinion but hope this helps
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 16, 2018 07:23AM
Thanks MCCarman, I will test it when i get home from work today again xD
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 16, 2018 07:46PM
Okay sorry for late notice, my parents had a small car accident, they are fine but car is totaled. Anyways, First thing I did was recalibrate the titan extruder, it was doing 10.78 on 10mm, so now it's at 9.96mm to 9.98mm. Here is the newest settings I've followed as you said MCCarman, and the picture results are also in the same folder, still the same problems at the same area.

Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 17, 2018 04:53AM
Glad your familly is OK. Shame about the car.
Sorry the settings didn't help. looks like the layer change points have biger blobs. I gues thats because you changed the extruder calibration. Looks like you need to up the retraction distance.
Your running 200 degrees still looks a bit hot to me but i can only see the pictures.
As you say its the same issue in the same places - possibly worse. Seems to be on the small layers/sections and either intermitent or underextrusion.
If it was a hot end temperature issue i would have expected to see some issues on the rest of the part.
Just wondering if its speed, jerk, accel related. I don't have much experience with these and none with S3D.
Maybe some one can jump in with some advice.
Just noticed you have outline (perimeters ?) set outside to in. I use inside to out. Also you have outline overlap at 20%. I would try that at 0. You may say that leaves gaps between outlines but don't forget you have set the feed multiplier to 91% so you should expect under extrusion with that setting.
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 17, 2018 06:30PM
Alright here are the newest results, it's still the same layers, just a little better, however what I notice is this. During these problem parts, the Titan would "click" and I'd see the filament snap, which means it's being pulled too far that it snaps back and gear loses slip on filament I believe, which means I guess I can't use that high retraction distance? Should I turn on only retract on open space and experiment with Wipe /Coast even though E3D themselves advise against it?

Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 17, 2018 09:54PM
id another test, the only settings changed were from outside in to inside out printing, retraction to 5.5mm, retraction distance 45mm/s, multiplier 0.92, temp at 185 still, and checked Only retract when crossing open spaces. I'm literally on the verge of crying/pulling my hair out, $600 machine and can't print... T_T always the same layers... (oh and also adjust printing speed for layers below increased to 11 secs.)

Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 18, 2018 04:37AM
Definately a pain.

Why is your multiplier at 0.92? We can see from the top and bottom layers it is under extruding. I would set this to 1 as you measured your filament so you know its correct. Check the extruder calibration is correct - steps per mm
Print at 195 since it will print at 185 but we don't want to wory that the temperature is to low.
The solid layers are poor and looks like they are completely missing infill in some places. Print something with a large flat surface thats 100% infilled so you can get the extrusion rate correct and show you have consistant filament delivery.
The bottom layer doesn't look flat but thats another problem. Im more concerned that it actually looks under extruded at one end.
Yep sounds like the speed is to high on the retract or the extruder current is not set high enough.
Its not extruding on the small sections. Those pillars look more like oozing. Possibly the retraction is preventing filament build up in the nozle - try a print without retraction. Will be bloby but see if these pillars get completed.
If they improve then its either missing steps on retraction or the retraction is tob big - you may be able to put some advance in to compensate.
I wish someone else would help out as i don't use S3D and have never printed a benchy.
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 18, 2018 07:24AM
Thank you MCCarman, sorry that was just a rant, because I have 7 printers in total, and all of them came with a problem that took me a a dozen hours to fix, but this one is about to overtake them all xD. I can tell you with confidence that I have tried without retraction, and then it prints fine, just lots of stringing and blobs then and a little "overextrusion" on those currently "underextrusion" parts with retraction off.
Will try another test and report back together with your advice. Thanks for helping me nevertheless.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 07:24AM by iamthebest22.
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 18, 2018 08:58PM
So close.... Is it still underextruding?
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 19, 2018 06:36PM
Another try, had a small missing layer, and top still... Is it still underextruding? I'm at 100% already though... [www.dropbox.com]
Re: Print Problem on two printers
January 22, 2018 04:38AM
Still underextruding.
If you have 7 printers you should be an expert.
If there all the same you could try swaping parts to see if the issue moves with the part.
Since retraction has a big effect i think the problem is somewhere in the hot end/extruder hardware. Looks better and i think you reduced the retract speed.
Is the extruder gear secure on the motor shaft. Not missing steps. Is the idler roller Loose?

Im running out of ideas now but i think its related to the extruder motor/drive. I think you have been underextruding in general and this seems to be really bad after a retraction. The earlier prints suffered from small layers having more oozing than printing.
Did you check the current setting on the extruder. Intermitent wiring fault. Dodgy driver on the controller.
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