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printing issue

Posted by gianni21 
printing issue
July 08, 2015 05:19AM
Hello guys I'm basically new to 3D Printing.
I bought a Prusa i3 which I assembled, but I'm getting stuck with a issue: I get poor quality prints.

In the picture attached you can see that the shape is quite dripped.

How can I solve it? What could the root cause be?
Extruder Temp: 200°C
HeatBed 55°C°
Material PLA
Nozzle: 0.4mm

First Layer H: 0.4mm (I also tried 0.2 but strands didn't stick on Kapton)
Layer H: 0.4mm

Thanks

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2015 08:02AM by gianni21.
Attachments:
open | download - IMG_1524.JPG (382.2 KB)
Re: printing issue
July 08, 2015 09:07AM
For a 0.4 nozzle the max. recommended layerheight is 0.32mm.
Why did the 0.2 layer not stick?
Was it squeezed to much, or not at all?
A good z-zero adjustment is important.
-Olaf
Re: printing issue
July 08, 2015 12:42PM
Yes I fixed the bed and it seems a way better!
What about retraction? It was set to 10mm and I'm going to reduce it to 2mm.

As I told, the situation has improved, but the first strand printed, in some parts, looked a bit broken.
Layer over layer it has been fixed automatically, but I'm wondering if it's normal.

Thanks
Re: printing issue
July 08, 2015 12:52PM
My retraction is set to 4.5mm and I can't figure out if I need to change it or not, but 2mm seems like a little too little to me, but I really don't know.

smiling smiley


Master Tinkerer
Re: printing issue
July 08, 2015 12:57PM
You don't need to heat the bed for PLA.
Re: printing issue
July 08, 2015 12:59PM
Printing is ongoing, what about that scuff in the middle?
It looks like the nozzle bumps over the extruded plastic damaging its shape....

Do I have to play with retraction a little bit? Lifting Z? Increasing retraction speed?
Before I was wrong, my retraction was (and it's still) set to 1mm, NO Z lifting, Speed 30 m/s.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2015 01:17PM by gianni21.
Attachments:
open | download - FullSizeRender.jpg (263.9 KB)
Re: printing issue
July 08, 2015 02:36PM
Quote
gianni21
what about that scuff in the middle?

It's not just the scuff -- those ridges on the top layer show that the nozzle is pushing through the soft plastic on every pass, even in your first picture. I had the same problem at first.

As Olaf says, you have to get Z homed right. If the nozzle starts too close to the bed it will just squish plastic out the sides on the first layer and be too low on other layers.

Also calibrate your extruder if you haven't, and get the correct steps/mm set in the firmware. And check your extrusion multiplier. To my non-expert eye, even the first layer looks over-extruded. I generally get straight even lines of plastic when things are working right.

Z steps/mm is also important here. If Z is moving less distance with each step than it thinks it is, that error can accumulate with each layer, and the higher you go, the more scraping. You can use the Prusa calculator. But that's not going to be much of an issue with flat items like these.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2015 02:45PM by CraigMoberg.
Re: printing issue
July 09, 2015 01:14AM
Retraction should be fast ( 60mm/s ) and long ( 4.5mm ). The goal is to lift up the molten and semisoft filament in the hotend. ( suck it up )
That, and the z-lift ( 0.2mm ) helps to disconnect the filament-trace form the print. ( numbers in brackets are my values as example for a hexagon hotend and direct drive extruder )
Z-lift also helps against scratching across the surface and probably loose some steps from dragging the nozzle into the print.
-Olaf
Re: printing issue
July 09, 2015 02:23AM
Hi guys,
believe me yesterday I spent about 8 hrs to figure out what's the cause of my poor printing and the result was quite scarce.

I tried to level the bed several times, I don't know if in the right way or not.
I used a flexible phone card to check the gap between the nozzle and the bed, moving it throughtout the area and doing fine tuning.

Probably it also overextrudes I have the E-Steps set at 95...

I don't know where to start/resume... the first layer piles up as a blob,
the nozzle at very beginning extrudes strands that I don't know where the h*ll they come from, morover hot nozzle ruins my works bumping over them.

I already tried retraction to 4.5 I have to give it a try again.
Suggestions are really accepted, even good words to heal frustation grinning smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2015 02:34AM by gianni21.
Re: printing issue
July 09, 2015 07:36AM
I would start with reducing the e-steps. Start with 80 and aim for the first layer to stay on the bed.
Then watch the next layers if they are closed or if you have to raise e-steps.
-Olaf
Re: printing issue
July 09, 2015 09:09AM
Hi Olaf thanks for your reply, I'll try the e-step thing.
I was watching a video on youtube which explains how to level the heatbed.
[www.youtube.com] (min 16:00)

Now I'm wondering why that guy leaves the nozzle strictly attached to the bed, is it the right procedure?

Probably I'm wrong but I thought that if there's no gap the extruder would not go around smoothly.
That said, I was setting Z in a way which would allow sliding a piece of thin paper between the nozzle and the bed, therefore not firmly attached.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2015 09:13AM by gianni21.
Re: printing issue
July 09, 2015 09:28AM
You were right with the paper, but a normal sheet of printer paper is just the right height to allow for thermal expansion of the hotend.
Also, you should use Prusa's calculator to find the correct e steps you should be using. e steps aren't something you should really tune, but there is a definite number for any printer.

smiling smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2015 09:30AM by Montiey.


Master Tinkerer
Re: printing issue
July 09, 2015 09:29AM
After the initial levelling without paying too much time on getting it 100% correct I print a huge square with a about .25mm layer height.
Where no filament makes it to stick I lower the corresponding corner a bit, where the layer becomes squashed I raise it a bit.
Usually takes less than 5 complete round with the nozzle to get it spot on.
After that I start with .1mm for the first layer and if required do some finetuning.
IMHO much easier than spending an hour or more bending over the bed with some paper or feeler gauges...
Re: printing issue
July 09, 2015 11:03AM
Hey Montiey, yes but he doesn't mention about tape but glass... so now I'm a bit confused,
I'm using kapton and i'm levelling it with kapton already on.

Do the nozzle have to be stick to the heatbed while extruder reaches Z=0?
Re: printing issue
July 09, 2015 11:15AM
Whatever you printing surface is, for example kapton tape, you should follow the paper leveling process as normal. if you were to use glue or hairspray, being an adhesive and not a substantially thick film you would want to level it bare to the plate or glass. One more question: What kind of z axis adjustment does your printer have, if any? My Pursa i3v from makerfarm has a bolt of that you can thread up and down for micro adjustment. I level the bed, but I just tweak the bolt to get a good first layer height instead of relying on the paper method.


Master Tinkerer
Re: printing issue
July 09, 2015 12:02PM
if you mean the adjustment for the Z switch, nothing I have to loosen 2 screws and do it manually (see the picture).
Another question, look at the bed, is the Y axis properly set? It looks like the nozzle isn't perpendicular, is it?
Attachments:
open | download - IMG_1543.JPG (584 KB)
open | download - IMG_1544.jpg (428.7 KB)
Re: printing issue
July 09, 2015 12:39PM
What exactly do you mean by perpendicular?


Master Tinkerer
Re: printing issue
July 10, 2015 02:29AM
By saying perpendicular, I mean the tip of the nozzle perfecty placed just above the perimeter of the heatbed's corner.

Anyway yesterday I spent another couple of hours doing tests.
The result is the following, maybe your expert eyes could give an assessment:

- 10mm cube E=70, looks not bad.
- Bridge: Overral not bad but why is it drooling between the two pilars?

Retraction is set to 4.5.

Anyway I noticed than when drawing the first layer of an object it doesn't immediately extrude PLA,
it takes a complete turn in order to start releasing the filament. Would Skirt and Brim help?

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2015 04:24AM by gianni21.
Attachments:
open | download - IMG_1550.JPG (515 KB)
open | download - IMG_1549.JPG (485.4 KB)
Re: printing issue
July 10, 2015 04:23AM
The drooling is strange.
Are you sure, you have a hotend made for 1.75 filament? Maybe it is made for 3mm filament and then they pushed a PTFE tube inside, but not entirely?

It is common, that it takes a while before extrusion starts, that´s why we print skirt lines.
If it takes more that 5-10cm until the extrusion starts, it can be related to the above mentioned..
-Olaf
Re: printing issue
July 10, 2015 04:25AM
I don't know please help me to figure out, there's a Teflon Tube inside, so is it a nozzle for 3mm?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2015 04:29AM by gianni21.
Re: printing issue
July 10, 2015 04:35AM
Just measure it...
Ususally a tube is for 1.75mm and has 2mm inner diameter.
Tubes for 3mm filament are 3.1 -3.5mm depending on the supplier.
Basically if you use 1.75mm filament and it is very loose in the tube you have to get the right hotend for your filament or change the filament.
Re: printing issue
July 10, 2015 04:59AM
What should I measure, the tube or the nozzle?
I nozzle, how can I measure it?

In Repetier Host I set nozzle diameter (I don't know why and maybe wrong) at 0.4mm, value suggested by the supplier...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2015 05:11AM by gianni21.
Re: printing issue
July 10, 2015 05:35AM
The nozzle should be for 1.75 filament as well as the PTFE tube. If the tube isn´t filling the M6 heat barrier completely, you´ll have a huge "cave" in your hotend.
You´d need a lot more retraction ( like 10mm as you had before ) to stop the drooling.

I´d look for an all metal heatbarrier made for 1.75mm filament. They are cheap and you can also print ABS then.
-Olaf
Re: printing issue
July 10, 2015 08:18AM
Hi Olaf the metal barrier is something I already have in place... It's not a bare teflon tube.
I'll follow your suggestion and let you know.

Then can I leave the 0.4 nozzle diameter parameter?
Re: printing issue
July 10, 2015 11:59AM
If you followed my link, there were some M6 screws with a bigger bore and PTFE tube inside. Other are solid metal with a smaller bore.
Yes, you can use the 0.4mm nozzle diameter.
-Olaf
Re: printing issue
July 12, 2015 01:33PM
Yes I took a look at it, If I had to replace the M6 screw which one should I pick up for 1.75?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2015 02:50AM by gianni21.
Re: printing issue
July 12, 2015 01:56PM
Look at this bridge, compared to its early version it looks better,
but there're still a couple of strands I don't know where they come from.

Retraction is set at 10mm length, Lift Z 0.1mm, Speed 30mm/s,
Bridge flow ratio 1, what would you tweak?

Instead, I'm quite satisfied about the 20mm cube give look at it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2015 02:29PM by gianni21.
Attachments:
open | download - IMG_1565.JPG (323.1 KB)
open | download - FullSizeRender(1).jpg (327.7 KB)
Re: printing issue
July 14, 2015 02:48AM
Olaf could you take a look at this picture?
The quality was quite perfect but the handle of this wrench is a little bit crooked.

It's made out of PLA
Hotend temp 185C
Hotbed 0C (but ambient temperature was 34C)

Could it be up to the hotbed temp?
Attachments:
open | download - IMG_1576.JPG (382.7 KB)
Re: printing issue
July 14, 2015 03:57AM
At 34C ambient temperature you sure had all windows open to catch a fresh breeze?
This might have been the cause for the warped handle.
If you want to print without heated bed, you´d build at least a casing around the printer.

Your other parts look better regarding retraction/stringing, but the cube still has "elephant´s foot".
Check this to see what´d help against it.

Keep the link as your 3D-bible winking smiley
-Olaf

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2015 03:57AM by o_lampe.
Re: printing issue
July 14, 2015 05:56AM
Yes windows were wide open but I have some doubts about the fresh breeze, it was quite hot here.
Anyway the printer was close enough to the window, so does light breeze affect printing?

Otherwise If I want to turn the heatbed on what will be a good temperature to set for PLA?
Take into account that today it's 32C 60% of humidity hot smiley

About the elephant's foot you mentioned, I have to print such 20mm cube again , since yesterday before the wrech I leveled the bed again.
The guide you provided me with is very extensive, thanks man!

Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2015 06:11AM by gianni21.
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