Not clear 3D printing results

Hi guys.
I am a newbie at 3D printing.

So first of all I would ask you to please close an eye on my stupids questions and my bad english

I am making my first attempts with the basic 3d printer by Leapfrog.

I am realizing a house model, and i am finding some problems with the printing results, expecially with the support settings.

I am using PLA 1.75 mm.
In the slicing preset that I have used layer height is 0.15, first layer height is 0.30.
6 layers on the top and 4 layers on the bottom.
Support is a "rectilinear grid" and the pattern spacing is "2 mm"

As you can see in the picture the problems are:
1. It seems that the support it's not enough thick because the wall that is build on it is not straight. (in the picture the support was already removed)
But i think that the support density is quite high so maybe there's another problem..
2. The bottom layers are making that strange effect that you can see in the picture. Can it be the bed temperature? Now is set at 55°C

I thank you all in advace for the help because right now I am a little bit lost

Sorry for multi-post but.. Anybody?

Ok, first: your first layer height is too big, make it 0.1, second your 0.15 layer setting might be in conflict with what your actual lead screw Can do, as a norm use even numbers for the layers (0.1 0.2 0.3), third change your bed temperature to 70 at least for the first 3~5 layers and then if you want to lowered to 55 (I print all at 70). Fourth you dont mention extrusion temperature, but I assume is probably too high, go anywhere between 190 and 212 but not more than that.

So try this and let me know:
Layer height 0.2
First layer height 75% of layer.
Bed temperature 70
Extrusion temperature 210
Infill 10~20%
Infill to perimeter overlap 20~30%
Print speed 15~20mm/sec.

If you can modify support?
1 layer separation top and bottom
35% support infill
1mm thickness.
If you can't be sure to reduce the angle at which support is selected (usually 45) lowered some to increase the amount of support been placed.

I will tell you what I tell everyone that start in 3D printing: before you can run, you need to learn how to walk. Your first print cannot be a complicated piece, grab a calibration cube and experiment with it all you want, print a set of them with 5 degrees of temperature difference, pick the best one and using that temperature run a new set with different bed temperatures, once you know your best temperatures the run a set with different layer height, speeds, infill, perimeters, etc. Grab the cheapest filament roll that you can find and used it all testing, omce you conquer printing with cheap filament, printing with good quality ones will be just smooth and rewarding.

Anyone can give you a good setting that works for them and their printer, but even though it might work for yours too, it might not be the best that you can get. Also, those settings might work for an specific part but then you get to print something else and again the problems will come out and untill you find out for yourself which are the best settings for your printer and the material you are using, you will always depends on someone else advise.

Good luck.

Quote
ggherbaz
Ok, first: your first layer height is too big, make it 0.1, second your 0.15 layer setting might be in conflict with what your actual lead screw Can do, as a norm use even numbers for the layers (0.1 0.2 0.3), third change your bed temperature to 70 at least for the first 3~5 layers and then if you want to lowered to 55 (I print all at 70). Fourth you dont mention extrusion temperature, but I assume is probably too high, go anywhere between 190 and 212 but not more than that.

So try this and let me know:
Layer height 0.2
First layer height 75% of layer.
Bed temperature 70
Extrusion temperature 210
Infill 10~20%
Infill to perimeter overlap 20~30%
Print speed 15~20mm/sec.

If you can modify support?
1 layer separation top and bottom
35% support infill
1mm thickness.
If you can't be sure to reduce the angle at which support is selected (usually 45) lowered some to increase the amount of support been placed.

Thank you very much for the advices, I have tried with your specs and the results are quite better! But still I have problems i can't solve, no matter what I try.
The first one is the problem number 2 of my previous post: the base layer is getting "fatter" and larger than the upper ones. I have tried everything, even to turn of the bed heating, but the problem is still there.
The other one is a not clear priting with imperfections in each corner, even for the simpliest solids, like a cube. I've read that it could be managed with a cooling fan for PLA. Could it be?
And thank you again

Quote
ggherbaz
I will tell you what I tell everyone that start in 3D printing: before you can run, you need to learn how to walk. Your first print cannot be a complicated piece, grab a calibration cube and experiment with it all you want, print a set of them with 5 degrees of temperature difference, pick the best one and using that temperature run a new set with different bed temperatures, once you know your best temperatures the run a set with different layer height, speeds, infill, perimeters, etc. Grab the cheapest filament roll that you can find and used it all testing, omce you conquer printing with cheap filament, printing with good quality ones will be just smooth and rewarding.

Anyone can give you a good setting that works for them and their printer, but even though it might work for yours too, it might not be the best that you can get. Also, those settings might work for an specific part but then you get to print something else and again the problems will come out and untill you find out for yourself which are the best settings for your printer and the material you are using, you will always depends on someone else advise.

Good luck.

You are right, that's why I have started with the simpliest solid to star with, like the cube. But the problems that I am finding are exactly the same of more complex solids.. Thank you anyway

Have you run any calibration test on your printer?
When you move any axis by 10mm have you measure it to be sure is moving 10mm?

I print PLA without fan most of the time, so I don't think that is your problem.

For what I can see in the photo, your print is warping and that might damage subsequent layers so lets do this:

Run the bed calibration script, using a feeler gauge (blade 0.1~0.102) get the blade to just slide with some pressure between bed and nozzle. Repeat it on all the points. (Always calibrate with nozzle and bet at printing temperatures)
Get (PURPLE) PVA glue stick from Elmers and apply few layers and wait for the glue to dry.

If you don't want your first layer to be fatter than the rest just set the same height as the rest of the print.
If the imperfections you see are curling down you are printing too hot, if up too cold adjust accordingly.

You only posted one photo, take some more pictures from different angles so I can see better the whole piece.

Thank you very much. I will start looking for the bed calibration script. Actually you aren't the first person who said this to me.

Quote
ggherbaz
If you don't want your first layer to be fatter than the rest just set the same height as the rest of the print.
If the imperfections you see are curling down you are printing too hot, if up too cold adjust accordingly.

You only posted one photo, take some more pictures from different angles so I can see better the whole piece.

I've already tried. I have set the first layer as the same size of the other one. But still, when you look at the printed objects from a strictly front view you can notice that the first layer are larger.
Here's another photo about it, the cube is upside down so you can see it better.

The other problem is expecially about support, but also about perimeters and corners. I mean, with support I've tried a lot a lot of different options, but still there's something wrong. But corners and perimeters.. damn it should be quite easy right? I've tried to set slow speeds and very slow speeds, but the results are even worse..

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2014 07:55AM by tolomo.

What model leapfrog you got?
From the second picture you posted, there is many issues that can be related to hardware or software.
Looks your temperature is too high, and i'm saying this because when PLA curls down is due to high temperature and when goes up is too cold. Your infill is crossing the outer perimeters, how many perimeters you set up for this print? And what infill percentage you set? Can you change the infill to perimeter overlap? Is the angle of the print at 45 degrees? Did you print it with support? If so, how many layers separation between support and part? Your printer most likely is a bowden type, what is your retraction settings? Most likely you need to bump it up more maybe 4~6mm. Check all the belts and re tight if you see any slack on them.
Does this printer comes with any particular slicer? .

I use simplify3d and if not mistaken I have leapfrog on the possible settings, send me the STL file of your part and I will create a gcode file for you to print and once done we can see if we can discard software issues.

I've got the basic model from Leapfrog. The printer is brand new and it was calibrated by Leapfrog (or at least it should have been calibrated).

I've tried any temperatures, from 190 to 220, but usually I am around 195.

I've set up 4 perimetres, with an honeycomb infill of 20%, but I've also tried rectilinear, rectinilear grid, ecc.
The priting speed is around 20, and the speed of the perimeter is 40% of the "normal" speed.
The angle of the print... I actually don't undestand sorry

Anyway the support is almost a solid piece: rectilinear grid 1mm, but I've tried everything.
The printer should be a bowden type one yes, But i actually don't know about the retraction settings. Let me search for it.

And no, the belts are good and tight. The slicer is the one from Leapfrog website, "Repetier-Host".
Here's my STL from thingverse, the solid that requires the support
And I want to thank you very much about all of this!

Tolomo,

your part is on the edge of what can be printed without support, that might be one of the reasons for some of your problems . (this was what i was asking you) at 45 degrees you should be supporting the structure specially when the part is wide.

I set a leapfrog creator single in my slicer and created the 2 files I attached, 1 is with support and 2 without it, try 2 first and then 1 to see the differences, I tweak both files to what I think will be best for each condition. let me know how they come out.

can't attach second file? too big at 1.04 MB

can you email me at ggherbaz@yahoo.com and I will forward the file

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2014 08:22PM by ggherbaz.

Quote
ggherbaz
Tolomo,

your part is on the edge of what can be printed without support, that might be one of the reasons for some of your problems . (this was what i was asking you) at 45 degrees you should be supporting the structure specially when the part is wide.

I set a leapfrog creator single in my slicer and created the 2 files I attached, 1 is with support and 2 without it, try 2 first and then 1 to see the differences, I tweak both files to what I think will be best for each condition. let me know how they come out.

Fist of all thank you very much.
Sorry if I reply just now but I have access to the 3d printer just on wednesday.
I tried to load your gcode but i get an error and i cannot start the priting. Anyway I manually changed each parameters and I've noticed no improvements.
I also make a try without support but the results is the same. My last chanche is the new fan that I've ordered recently. I will mount it on the extruder hoping to cool down the PLA and to improve the priting!!