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pictorial print issue identifier

Posted by rrr7 
pictorial print issue identifier
January 20, 2013 04:38PM
I think I read someone else suggest something like this before, but have never seen anything since.

It may save us a lot of time asking for someone to visually identify our particular print issue and others responding to each individual if somewhere we were to make a kind of pictorial print issue identifier which shows several pictures and descriptions of problems with the identified root cause and corrective action taken to resolve it. It could be categorized and searchable so that users can troubleshoot issues they have never come across before, but others have. It should be much faster than searching and reading through a hundred threads. Just a more condensed knowledge base.

Not to say that this forum is not really useful, it just can take a long time to find something close to what ails your printer.

(My apologies if someone else has made this already as I have not come across it. Please let me know where to find it.)


Admin edit : adding link to the wiki page which answers this request for fast reference : [reprap.org]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2014 06:02AM by DeuxVis.
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
January 20, 2013 05:41PM
+1

I think that was my post u read - "the here's my problem and here's how I fixed it thread"

GREAT idea I think - I like the pictorial identifier too - even better ;-)

Didn't really take off tho :-P

Dunno if the forum has mods?? They might be able to sticky this thread, mine's slowly getting burried!

*waits quietly to see if he can hear mods rustling in the bushes*
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
January 20, 2013 07:57PM
I liked your idea JazzyB and roland too!

So that makes a motion for some kind of quick searchable text and picture print problem identifier, and a second. I am going to count roland also as a yay vote with his statements in "troubleshooting-faq???"... .

Do we have any more votes yay or nay?

maybe as a webpage under reprap.org?
It could even be populated by existing thread info and pictures as long as the thread concluded with a clear resolving statement.
Is there a better format that anyone wants to suggest other than a straight webpage?

Do we have any volunteers to put this together?

Note: I have only built one website with Joomla and a wordpress website, but could probably muddle through it if no one else wants to pick it up. Except I don't know what access I would need on reprap. My original reprap account went away some years back when the site got all divided up and wiki-ed, so I made a new account just in case. I don't want to volunteer someone else to do something I might be able to do myself. But if someone already administering it would pick it up, that would be fine too- your choice smiling smiley

Any takers?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2013 08:24PM by rrr7.
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
January 20, 2013 11:35PM
rrr7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Except I don't know what access I would need on
> reprap. My original reprap account went away some
> years back when the site got all divided up and
> wiki-ed, so I made a new account just in case. I
> don't want to volunteer someone else to do
> something I might be able to do myself. But if
> someone already administering it would pick it up,
> that would be fine too- your choice smiling smiley
>
> Any takers?


I've been following rep-rap for about, mmmm... a month or two - lol - so I don't know what you mean there by "access on reprap"?
You've been in the game quite a while yourself??
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
January 21, 2013 10:02AM
+2

i could program an external "new topic" page with php:

string: url to existing thread (leave empty to create new thread)
interactive multi-dropdown-multichoice-select: categories
string: keywords
multiline: problem short
multiline: solution short
multiline: problem details
multiline: solution details
attachments: jpg/zip/...
string: forum username / email address

this form posted would create a new thread or append the post to an existing thread using the public user "wikiuser" with password "yes".

That way, a wiki knowledgebase would be put inside this board.

and another php script would scan this forum once an hour (using monitor.us) To update an interactive search page.

when users start using it, the admin should be able to create a new user group "wikiuser",only putting the user wikiuser into it
and than only allow the admin group and this wikiuser group to create new threads in this bpard.

it is better to stay within this forum, because a lot people are "living" here and might be motivated to add solutions to threaads not already marked as "solved".

you could tell this solution to the developers-board of this forum software.. mayber there is already a module quite alike or developers might be happy to add this wiki-feature to the forum software.

i can only program it after at least two sunny days. battery nearly empty and my little solar panel does not charge a single watt in these cloudy snowy cold german winterdays: [www.liebwink.de]

currently typing on a bluetooth keyboard with +4 reading glasses watching my motorola defy at 15cm distance :-)
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
January 21, 2013 01:18PM
JazzyB, I have been following the reprap project for at least ~6 years I think. But that is not to say that I have read or know everything about it.

roland, I am not sure that I follow what you mean, it sounds like you are thinking about adding descriptors to each thread in the existing discussion thread format?

What I had in mind is some kind of organized decision tree like structure with pictures where possible which would walk someone through their symptoms to find similar cases as theirs and the individual cases would provide more detail of what the problem was and the solutions that worked to resolve it. Not so much like the discussion thread format used in this wiki forum. Not to say that it could not be contained in a wiki, just with a little more static framework structure. We could use the discussion thread forum to datamine and populate the tree with pics, category descriptors, data and add hyperlinks back to the original forum so they can read the back-story if desired too. Like a troubleshooting handbook.

Kind of like: if your print looks something like this (pic) [too hot] then your problem may be one of these (pic) [extruder too hot], (pic) (bed too hot), (pic) [lacks fan], (pic) [layer heat buildup]...
else if your print looks something like this (pic) [too cold] then your problem may be one of these (pic) [ ]...
else if your print looks something like this (pic) [ ]...
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
January 23, 2013 04:07PM
Even descriptions work well - I am a CNC machinist and I have a GREAT troubleshooting book (really helped me to excell at work) which has a diagram accompanied by a description such as:

* Surface finish is rough and 'pitted'
* Metal chips are curled very tightly
* Tool wears out quickly
* Screeching noise while cutting

(accompanied by a picture or diagram)

This is also good not just for troubleshooting, but for optimising your work:

* Printhead can move faster, but adjust temperature up by a factor of (???)
* Belts must be tight
* Use "cool" feature of slicer software to avoid printing sparse layers "too quickly" resulting in *This effect*
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
January 24, 2013 03:10PM
sure, fair enough.
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
January 26, 2013 01:16PM
Found this just now:
[www.flickr.com]

Could be a good start if not an actual solution to what we're talking about here...
VDX
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
January 26, 2013 01:40PM
... I've made this thread sticky, so it can 'acumulate' some ideas -- can make a forum for this too ...


Viktor
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
January 31, 2013 11:48PM
Very good idea. Unfortunatly that flickr site is blocked at my work internet
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 03, 2013 01:04PM
JazzyB,
That Flickr site is a good example.
There is a lot of information in it, but it is difficult to find anything in particular that you may be looking to find and would take a lot of time. The information contained is also sporadic in how much info about each picture is given, root cause, fixed tried and the final resolution. There is just not enough organization to it. I do like the prominence of the pictures and that you do not have to click on anything to see the images.
I think that we could do a much better job in organizing and populating information to make a durable and quicker troubleshooting aid. I think the objective here is organizing the data to aid in troubleshooting.

How about we start talking about specific information required in the guide?
I think that we should include in each entry:
1) category descriptors
2) list symptoms
3) root cause (if known)
4) list corrective actions tried
5) action that resolved problem
6) picture(s)
7) hyperlink to wiki discussion or external source

On the format topic:
I think we all agree that we would include a search tool.
For overall format I would like to see a tree like structure with pictures and symptoms or category descriptors to help the user find similar cases quickly.
(Here is a thought that I will just throw out and ask for opinions on: maybe the user could select which category they would like to see the tree split out by? descriptors, symptoms, root cause?, or is that too confusing?)
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 03, 2013 01:06PM
Thanks Viktor (VDX)!
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 03, 2013 06:19PM
On the format topic- take a look at this two page list referenced from the skeinforge wiki if you have not seen it.
[rapmanv3.blogspot.com]
A nice start, but more is required to get down to finding exactly what you need when you need it. We need many exact cases and fixes.

info required topic- maybe we could tabulate the results for the "actions that resolved the problem". Since with a given set of symptoms there may be several people who tried the fixes and maybe not always the same thing fixes them, so we could allow users to rank their problems and which fix worked for them. So the fixes may have a % behind them as to which fraction of users resolved their similar issue with that one fix in the list.
example:
1) category descriptors: skipping
2) list symptoms: x-axis skipping, y-axis skipping
3) root cause(s): stepper controller set too low, belt slipping on sprocket, sprocket slipping, belt rubbing,
stepper controller over-temp dropping steps, belt slipping on sprocket
4) list corrective actions tried: stepper controller adjust pot up, tighten belt, tighten sprocket, reduce rubbing, cool
stepper controller, replace w/ manufactured sprocket, reduced speed settings
5) action that resolved problem: stepper controller adjust pot up (45%), tighten belt, tighten sprocket (20%), reduce
rubbing (15%), cool stepper controller (15%), reduced speed settings (5%)
6) picture(s): 1, 2, 3 (these will be shown when viewing the topic)

we may have to tabularize the actions etc to relate them to fixes to maintain clarity for each topic.
What do you think?
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 06, 2013 11:47AM
We've started to do this over in our Printrbot wiki/forum: [www.printrbottalk.com]
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 08, 2013 01:07PM
plexus,
not a bad start.
(so far that site has about a page of info with 3 pictures total.)
With the amount of data that we have in this wiki, this one can be really fantastic!
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 16, 2013 05:33PM
Ok, I put together a document showing what I think the wiki webpage should look like (sorry, I did not html code it in case you were wondering). The format is what I am suggesting with the rough categories that I can think of. Keep in mind, most of the content will need to be filled in.

I am asking for comments if you think it is ready to go live. (two formats of the same file for your convenience)
Or if you think we should make changes, please feel free to make suggestions.
Thanks,
Attachments:
open | download - printer-troubleshooting-guide01.doc (485 KB)
open | download - printer-troubleshooting-guide01.odt (489.5 KB)
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 23, 2013 02:04PM
started a page http://www.reprap.org/wiki/Print_Troubleshooting_Pictorial_Guide

I'm still learning to hand code and format pages in wiki and templates.
I would like help to make it automatic to add new entries still though, does anyone know how to do this?
Also, could the tables be edited directly on the page without going to the 'page edit' sheet?

(edit: corrected link title to lower caps)
(edit: removed template help request- it took me most of the day to figure it out.)
(edit: added question)

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2013 09:11PM by rrr7.
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 24, 2013 04:58AM
I took the freedom to rename the used template to "PicGuide01", as this type of template can be used quite well for other purposes. Excellent idea, this pictorial guide, BTW.


Generation 7 Electronics Teacup Firmware RepRap DIY
     
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 24, 2013 07:22PM
I discovered "gallery" in wiki code and thought it should align the pics better, but I am having trouble implementing it in the template. It does not want to accept the image file name variables {{{name.jpg}}} from the calling page.
Any suggestions?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2013 07:38PM by rrr7.
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 25, 2013 03:32AM
For myself I tried to implement picture alignment based on tables and failed. Templates and tables don't mix well and apparently the RepRap wiki doesn't process #if statements.

I just mention this in case you get the same idea.


Generation 7 Electronics Teacup Firmware RepRap DIY
     
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
February 25, 2013 06:37PM
Traumflug,
Thanks for working on it, I tried some variations of picture formatting from here icture_tutorial" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">wikipedia, and had some good results, but ended up doing something odd and combining the left sidebar text and graphics with the template somehow. sad smiley
I think I got it set back the same way it was earlier today when you left it.
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
March 02, 2013 10:30PM
Well, pic gallery results look better now.
But it could still use some kind of automation if anyone knows how to implement that or even if it is possible or not in wiki text?
That could speed up data entry if it is available.
The page is basically up and running now. It just needs more data entries.
Print_Troubleshooting_Pictorial_Guide
Thanks for everyone's suggestions and help!
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
March 05, 2013 02:24AM
Some more pics if you want to use them. Sorry if I posted in wrong place - please advise.

Feed rate too high
Seen from 45o angle shows it up better on 0.5mm thin wall cube that Slic3r made to 0.7mm, coming in at around 0.9mm!


and after correction to Extrusion Multiplier coming out at the desired 0.7mm:


Will try to add to Wiki when my confirmation email comes thru smiling smiley

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2013 02:51AM by infodude.

Mendel iteration 2
J-Head Mk4 (0.5mm & 0.4mm) 3mm sleeve
That head from eBay from Poland (0.3mm)
Wade, Wade's accessible
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
March 05, 2013 03:33AM
Trying to add some pictures in a table using the existing scheme. I'm used to the standard MediaWiki - I'm finding this one a little scary confused smiley


Mendel iteration 2
J-Head Mk4 (0.5mm & 0.4mm) 3mm sleeve
That head from eBay from Poland (0.3mm)
Wade, Wade's accessible
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
March 06, 2013 09:19PM
Infodude,
Thanks for trying to enter data into PTPG, yeah it is kind of a pain.
This is the right forum, Probably needed its own thread for enough info for me to use.
Those pics are a little too fuzzy this time, but thanks anyway. Many people get too close with their camera or phone for the focal length limit of the lens, try backing up a couple of feet and use a zoom if you have it. I even use an 8" desktop magnifier sometimes to take pics through and that does a really good job.
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
March 07, 2013 12:27AM
They were taken with a microscope, problem is it has virtually no depth of field. I'll give it another go.


Mendel iteration 2
J-Head Mk4 (0.5mm & 0.4mm) 3mm sleeve
That head from eBay from Poland (0.3mm)
Wade, Wade's accessible
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
March 18, 2013 01:53PM
If anyone is trying to take photos for this and has an slr a great cheap super close up macro lens can be made by buying an old M42 manual 50mm lens off ebay (£7) then print yourself some macro extension tubes. I've photographed the ends of ballpoint pens with the ball taking up half the photo like this. (well my extension tubes weren't printed, but that should be easy enough!)
I will be happy to contribute photos. Got boxes and boxes of scrap & failed parts. What can I say I learned the hard way. I'll take a pic of the ones that I remember and write a bit about them (problem/solution) before I recycle them. Once I have more time I have always wanted to deliberately make an incorrect setting and print with it wrong so that I could document the result by photo. Example: Setting XY Jerk very low. Just need to know where to post. It will be a few weeks though. I am still doing baseline calibrations on OmNom.

Mike
Re: pictorial print issue identifier
April 14, 2013 07:50AM
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