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Induction heating for 3D printer.

Posted by Z 
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Z
Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 10, 2015 04:08AM
Before I didn't build any 3D printer. Now I begin to design my 3D printer.

My extruder and induction heated hot end here.

[www.youtube.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2015 06:29AM by Z.
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ggherbaz
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 10, 2015 11:39AM
Not to discourage you on that wonderful design, but why add complexity to a simple and reliable system? Also induction heating works with dangerous high voltages, a 12 or 24 volts system will shock you but the voltages running an induction heater will kill you.
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Z
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 10, 2015 05:11PM
The delay of the system to have a very small metal mass and induction heating is minimal. This will allow me to I can print at high speeds from 3d printer.
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ggherbaz
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 12, 2015 02:48PM
Oh, no doubt. Induction heating is very efficient and fast, if you actually impregnate the filament with iron powder it will be even simpler but still the high voltage factor is there and you will have to deal with it and protect the user from it unless you don't mind get sued by the parent of an electrocuted kid.

For people that understand this system its fine, but don't expect a parent to put his kid close to a power source greater than 12 Volts.
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691175002
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 13, 2015 01:18PM
That is actually pretty awesome. I think it has a lot of potential now that people are starting to looking into printing as fast as possible. Once we start looking into things like temperature catchup or feedforward in the control loop, getting fast response at the nozzle will be very important.

What we really need next is a way of measuring the extrusion temperature as closely as possible so we can really put a tight loop around temperature.
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Z
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 14, 2015 07:23AM


1N4148 diode very cheap and work like as temperature sensor.



[scontent-fra.xx.fbcdn.net]

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2015 01:20PM by Z.
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ggherbaz
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 14, 2015 01:50PM
Thanks for the pictures. Are you using any insulation coating for the diode wires or they don't get hot? Also at what frequency are you working the coil?
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Z
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 14, 2015 02:09PM
Electrical insulation not necessary because centre hole of coils to big. One leg soldered to nozzle. Also this leg at the ground potansiyel.

I tried 40....200 Khz frequency range and I didn't see any difference. Now I use 160 Khz and coil voltage is 30V.
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MattMoses
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 14, 2015 02:50PM
This is really great, Z. Thank you for sharing it.

Can you tell us about the coil? How many turns? What is the wire gauge?

Also, is it possible you could share the schematic or tell us about the circuit to drive the coil?
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Z
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 14, 2015 04:46PM
I don't have PLA filament and I used PP material for the testing and developing the induction heater. (I slicing the yogurt container.)
I will make new arrangements at the circuits if necessary in order PLA filament after arrival. (In the next week)

After I will share schematics and mechanical dimensions of coil.
Primary windings 6 x 0.3 mm diameters hand made litz wire. 10...20 Turn.

Secondary windings 6...8 turns. 0.6 mm diameter. I used teflon material for carcass of coil.

(I don't remember exact turn numbers. But turn numbers are not critic. Only change the resonance frequency.)
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ggherbaz
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 15, 2015 01:18AM
Oh, Cool. Didn't thought that the voltage was so low. Then forget what I said about the high voltage factor.

Very reasonable frequency, it should not create any interference to other electronics.

Have you tried to put any proximity sensors next to it? I'm wondering if the electromagnetic field created by the coil will affect them?
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eades850
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 19, 2015 06:55PM
Having been an Electronics Technician and Electrician for over 40 years, I think the idea is brilliant.
People forget that it is not the voltage that kills, it is the Amperage. Current 40w extruder heater cartridge draw nearly 3.4 A. It only takes 1/4 A to kill.
You can be electrocuted with a 1.5 volt "D" cell battery, yet I have been hit with 250,000 volts from an ignition coil with no ill effects beyond a tingle that lasted about an hour.

One of the beauties of inductive heating is that it can be done with very stringent current control through the coil since it is the magnetic field oscillation which creates the induced heat in the element. The other beauty is that in most as the voltage and frequency increase, the current decreases. The trick is finding the parity point wherein the most heat is obtained with the lowest E & Fr.
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eades850
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 19, 2015 07:00PM
Quote
ggherbaz
Oh, Cool. Didn't thought that the voltage was so low. Then forget what I said about the high voltage factor.

Very reasonable frequency, it should not create any interference to other electronics.

Have you tried to put any proximity sensors next to it? I'm wondering if the electromagnetic field created by the coil will affect them?

If you use a shielded input lead with a simple Faraday Cage around the coil, it should mitigate any RFI.
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ggherbaz
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 20, 2015 08:41PM
eades850,

Thanks for the explanation, I will definitely experiment some with it.
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MachineHum
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 22, 2015 12:11AM
Quote
eades850
People forget that it is not the voltage that kills, it is the Amperage. Current 40w extruder heater cartridge draw nearly 3.4 A. It only takes 1/4 A to kill.

This is true... but only on the most literal level. A voltage source doesn't have a set amperage, is has a max amperage. A 1.5V 10000000000A supply won't do shit to you when you touch the leads... this is because the load is what determines the current, and in this case your body is the load.

5V @ 1000A supply won't do shit
10000V @ 1/4A supply will kill you
10000V @ 0 A supply won't do shit

You need a high voltage and (as you said) min. 1/4A supply

Sorry, I just really hate that saying.

Also this design is awesome, I'll be watching this thread.
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eades850
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 22, 2015 08:01AM
Quote
MachineHum
Quote
eades850
People forget that it is not the voltage that kills, it is the Amperage. Current 40w extruder heater cartridge draw nearly 3.4 A. It only takes 1/4 A to kill.

This is true... but only on the most literal level. A voltage source doesn't have a set amperage, is has a max amperage. A 1.5V 10000000000A supply won't do shit to you when you touch the leads... this is because the load is what determines the current, and in this case your body is the load.

5V @ 1000A supply won't do shit
10000V @ 1/4A supply will kill you
10000V @ 0 A supply won't do shit

You need a high voltage and (as you said) min. 1/4A supply

Sorry, I just really hate that saying.

Also this design is awesome, I'll be watching this thread.


It is the resistance of the current path which makes the difference. AC voltages capacitively couple THROUGH the resistance of the dead top layers of your skin, which is what makes them so relatively dangerous.
DC voltage/current is Direct coupled and must overcome the inherent resistance of the same dead skin which can easily be over 90K ohm. It is a false sense of security to say a High current low voltage DC potential is harmless. In the military I was trained in a method which would electrocute a person with a 1.5VDC "D" cell battery from our flashlight. It is very effective and DOES work. What's more, I had a high school friend who died from leaning on the terminals of a car battery when he was sweaty from working...That was all it took to decrease his skin resistance to where a 12v car battery killed him.

My original statement still stands that it is not the voltage that kills, it is the Amperage.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2015 08:07AM by eades850.
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ggherbaz
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 23, 2015 01:34PM
Even though we are getting out of theme here, DC is a better killer than AC.

I have put a 9 volts battery in my thong in the past when I was a kid, but I would most definitely don't do that with a car 12 volts battery.

A 5 volt supply that can provide 1000 amps of consumption or a 1000 volts with 1/4 amps will kill you "If" and only IF you close the circuit. That's why electricians use rubber boots and gloves.

But to my original point on this post : at 1/4 amps I rather take my chances with 12 volts than 1000.
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eades850
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 23, 2015 06:12PM
Quote
ggherbaz
Even though we are getting out of theme here, DC is a better killer than AC.

I have put a 9 volts battery in my thong in the past when I was a kid, but I would most definitely don't do that with a car 12 volts battery.

A 5 volt supply that can provide 1000 amps of consumption or a 1000 volts with 1/4 amps will kill you "If" and only IF you close the circuit. That's why electricians use rubber boots and gloves.

But to my original point on this post : at 1/4 amps I rather take my chances with 12 volts than 1000.

I'm not trying to get off point or be argumentative at all. Either one will kill at 250ma. I've worked with low and high voltage and current AC/DC for over 45 years and known of men killed by everything from a 10A 5V DC supply in the lab,to a 408VAC feeder going into an inverter. I was nearly killed by a 28VDC circuit in a piece of equipment when the isolator sheet slipped. Thankfully the current path was down my arm from the point of contact near my elbow and I just lost the tip of my little finger when it exploded where it touched the unit chassis.
I am just trying to point out that they are both hazardous and have deadly potential if not handled carefully
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Z
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 29, 2015 01:37PM
Hi guys,

First of all last week my father passed away because of this I was late posting the schematics.
The schematic of the induction heater I made are below. I didn’t buy any of the electronic components I used the components I owned. Because of this some of the electronics components (MOS and Transistor) can be expensive.

I am giving you guys the schematic in honor of my father.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2015 03:03AM by Z.
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MattMoses
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 30, 2015 12:40PM
Very sorry to hear about your father, Z. Please accept my condolences.

Thank you for sharing the schematic with us! I have some questions about the circuit. I hope it is OK that I made some edits to your drawing so that I could ask these questions. Can you confirm that my understanding of the circuit is correct?


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Z
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
March 30, 2015 02:05PM
Thank you for your condolences.

Yes absolutely correct.

First block is a power oscillator circuit. Frequency change with coil diameters and turn numbers.

Diode used instead of temperature sensor. (Don't worry it works at the 200C.)

Other circuit is temperature stabiliser. (Power osc circuit activated if temperature lower then set point. Simple on/off control)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2015 03:45AM by Z.
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realthor
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
November 08, 2015 03:09PM
Hello, firstly sorry about your loss Z sad smiley

Has there been any developemnt on this? I am interested and I guess it gains traction in the industry.
We only need to have something more or less standardized at least withing the reprap community.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2015 03:31PM by realthor.

RepRap Lander concept on Concept Forge
RepRap Lander concept on RepRap Forums
My Things, mostly experimental stuff
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kelesekrem
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
October 03, 2017 07:40AM
Hello friends how are you?
I want to melt aluminum with an induction heater and can I print it in 3d?(600 C)
Thanks.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2017 07:41AM by kelesekrem.
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VDX
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
October 03, 2017 03:22PM
... FDM-like 3D-printing with fluid metal won't work as expected - it will form blobs and gaps, instead of extruding in a continuos line eye rolling smiley

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
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kelesekrem
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
October 04, 2017 02:56PM
thanks friend. but that topic final project.How can I print metals?
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kelesekrem
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
October 04, 2017 02:58PM
thanks for answer.But that topic final project what can ı do that topic? How can I print metals?
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VDX
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
October 04, 2017 03:28PM
... you can FDM-print with metal-filled filament and then bake/sinter/reduce it to "nearly solid" metal - comercial 80%-metal-filled filaments will shrink while heating roughly 10% to 20% -- the more, the better "metal-like" will it be ...

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
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kelesekrem
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
October 04, 2017 05:05PM
sorry.My english is a little bad. I do not fully understand.
smiling smiley
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kelesekrem
Re: Induction heating for 3D printer.
October 04, 2017 05:07PM
anyway thank you very much
smiling smiley
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