Flying Extruder Damper January 23, 2017 09:47PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 916 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 24, 2017 02:13AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 154 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 24, 2017 03:46AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 916 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 24, 2017 12:32PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 3,525 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 24, 2017 02:11PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 5,232 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 24, 2017 08:54PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 916 |
Quote
o_lampe
I thought the meaning of the flying extruder would be to make the extruder follow the printhead but without the added weight?
Now you want to fix it in XY direction? That would mean you need a longer Bowden tube?!
I'd let it swing and also use the winch to keep the tube short. Maybe add a damper ( or 3? ) to make it perfect.
The clockspring is a nice printer project btw...
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 02:55AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 5,232 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 03:25AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 916 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 03:36AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 5,232 |
Quote
Moving the attachment points down, (which moves the stepper up), makes the bowden longer.
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 04:02AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 916 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 05:44AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 3,525 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 06:18AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 5,232 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 12:14PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
o_lampe
The negative effect of the tube length can't be linear:
#1 The longer the tube, the more room for the filament to compress.
#2 Longer tube has more friction, that's a factor to the compression problem.
#3 More compression means longer retractions and adds ooze-time.
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 01:04PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 3,525 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 03:57PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
DjDemonD
So would you say David you can tune a bowden to beat/equal the print quality of a direct extruder such as a titan?
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 04:08PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 805 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 25, 2017 06:09PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 3,525 |
Quote
dc42
Quote
DjDemonD
So would you say David you can tune a bowden to beat/equal the print quality of a direct extruder such as a titan?
Although I get acceptable print quality with my 600mm Bowden, I doubt that I could match the print quality of a direct extruder. What I am saying is that I don't think a short straight Bowden tube need be a significant handicap if it is set up correctly, and if it helps to decouple mass from the print head, it may give better results than a heavier print head and no Bowden tube at all.
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 26, 2017 10:32AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 916 |
Quote
dc42
#1 can be mitigated by using 1.8mm ID tube instead of 2.0mm. This might increase friction too much for a long, curved Bowden tube, but should be OK for a relatively short straight Bowden tube.
Quote
dc42
#3 can be mitigated by using pressure advance. When necessary, pressure advance will start retracting before end of the extruding move.
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 27, 2017 04:36PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
nebbian
Quote
dc42
#1 can be mitigated by using 1.8mm ID tube instead of 2.0mm. This might increase friction too much for a long, curved Bowden tube, but should be OK for a relatively short straight Bowden tube.
Have you actually used 1.8 diameter tube? It's a pain. When you change filament, the plug at the end of the filament is 2mm wide, and sticks hard to the sides of the tube. I have 5m of 1.8mm diameter tube in my junk box, marked "BAD". I'm never using it again.
Quote
nebbian
Quote
dc42
#3 can be mitigated by using pressure advance. When necessary, pressure advance will start retracting before end of the extruding move.
Have you tried printing a flexible filament such as TPE with a long bowden tube? Let me know how you go with that
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 30, 2017 08:08AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 356 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 31, 2017 03:09AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 916 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 31, 2017 03:59AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 3,525 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 31, 2017 05:50AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
nebbian
Nice prints GroupB! You're doing well to get that sort of speed out of TPE, especially with a 600mm bowden.
The issue (as of course I'm sure you're aware) is that on extrusion speed changes, you get a drawn out blob when slowing down, and a drawn out underextrusion on extrusion speed increases. This can be mitigated somewhat by keeping all speeds/extrusion widths the same, but this is difficult when bridging unless you're very aware of what's going on.
Re: Flying Extruder Damper January 31, 2017 08:21PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 356 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper February 01, 2017 02:54AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper February 01, 2017 03:17AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 916 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper February 01, 2017 05:49AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
nebbian
Is pressure advance also dependant on the type of material used? ie would you have a different value for PLA vs TPE?
Re: Flying Extruder Damper February 01, 2017 10:46PM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 356 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper February 02, 2017 02:53AM |
Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 5,232 |
Re: Flying Extruder Damper February 02, 2017 04:35AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
Quote
GroupB
I dont blame you DC42 I assume the same and never try it before this last month where I saw some half price, then I had to try it, I was ready to move to direct extruder temporary for a project im doing that will require some tpe but It was a very nice surprise to see I was able to do it good enough with the bowden. Off course the part require some cleaning , Im still tuning the retract to avoid that much cleaning but other than small blob not really stick to the side and easy to remove because of my fast travel and spider web it was good enough.
that the filament I used T-FLEX maybe its a little harder than ninja flex and that why it print better ... I dont know. Ninja flex was too pricey for a first time trying TPE.
BTW pressure advance working on old 1.13 firmware right ? Im on radds so I have a old firmware.