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Large Kossel all metal delta build log

Posted by DjDemonD 
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 06:50AM
Short answer, they click occasionally.

Long answer - the bed is a good fit, when cold but doesn't need to be tapped into place. They are ABS so they give a little, and the way they are mounted across the verticals means that the outwards force, when the bed expands, is distributed between the two supporting 2020 extrusions.

I don't know if its a potential source of problems, but if it is I haven't detected any yet.


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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 09:39AM
I'm thinking of adapting your design and taking the screw holes for mounting to the frame and making them slotted. Just a small slot, like 0.5mm and angled properly so that it can slide a bit if the expansion pushes it to do so.
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 09:42AM
That'll work but it's really not a big problem. I made the mounting holes a bit wider to get it to fit, but slots would work also. Let me know how it goes.


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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 01:46PM
could you say us if you are happy with nimble?
could you show us the final result with it mount
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 01:48PM
Hi I have a nimble but I haven't got around to fitting it or using it yet. Been too busy making piezo sensors.


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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 02:11PM
where do you buy you piezo?
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 02:15PM
From RS components. Please read all about it at www.precisionpiezo.co.uk, and there are several piezo threads here also in the general forum.


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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 02:59PM
do you have the ref from rs components for the good one?
it s very interessing project and very accurate sensor!
now we need an electonic module to add with this sensor as i can see
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 03:02PM
[www.aliexpress.com]

i have this for my big delta project..and clone hotend v6
could you say me which is good for this effector?
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 03:49PM
Hi rs stock number for 20mm Piezo is 871-1994P

You'll need a pcb, it's available to buy click shop at precision Piezo site above, or you can make one see the resources page.


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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 04:39PM
i will buy pcb on uk page
could you say me which file i need to print to be compatible with my effector?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2017 04:46PM by titeuf007.
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
July 29, 2017 10:55PM
No not for certain, I don't make a sensor specifically for that effector. But if the holes are 25mm spacing the screw mount module will fit. You can always alter it in cad before printing.


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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
August 08, 2017 03:49PM
djdemond:
are you design something like this for you delta : a Kossel Linear Drive Belt Lower Cover
[www.thingiverse.com]

and this
[www.thingiverse.com]

you machin will have a better looking
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
August 08, 2017 05:00PM
Thanks, the lower one might be useful, the upper one would be a waste of time if sits on a gable and the top cannot be seen.


[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe.
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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
August 09, 2017 03:40AM
if you create a new design don t hesitate to share with us winking smiley
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
August 10, 2017 08:30AM
[www.youtube.com]

i search this kind of design to enclose mine but i can t arrive to find the stl file
if someone has find it ccould be great to share
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 12, 2017 05:04AM
Update on this machine. It now has T3P3/duet/dc42 smart effector and nimble extruder. I am quite pleased with both, the smart effector/pcb carriages neaten up the wiring and are performing in terms of stiffness and z probing as well as the aluminium custom effector/carriages and precision Piezo sensor I was using before.



In many ways this validates that the precision Piezo sensor system is about as accurate as the firmware and mechanics allow as it gives the same calibration deviation as the smart effector. Also it validates that pcb carriages and effector are stiff enough as they give similar results to 3mm aluminium which at this scale is quite stiff.

The nimble - its small, neat, and light. It's reversible design allowing it to be a left or right handed unit is clever. Too clever for me at first as I thought they'd shipped me the wrong "handed" unit until I realised it can be turned over. I have had no drive cable issues and I replaced my breech with the slightly redesigned one that I was sent, and that Zesty now ship.

The mounting has been given a lot of thought and is very easy to use and incorporate elsewhere when needed. The motor bracket supplied is solid and effective and cleverly has holes to suit 2020 or 2040 frames. The drive cable sheath is sturdy.

The print quality is great, I've had a flying titan extruder and flex3drive on this machine previously and there is nothing to choose between them in terms of print quality. It will retract fast enough, although this machine is mainly for ABS so not that sensitive to poor retraction.

It can print fast enough too I managed a good quality caliblock in 1hr3mins (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1090268).

So all in all very pleased with the current state of the machine.

Coming soon enclosure using flexible petg panels which I'm hoping will mount simply by bending and slotting into the channels in the 2040 tower extrusion. It won't be that simple but here's hoping.I will also have to reroute some cables, move my nimble motor bracket, enclose the top of the machine, move my spool holder and eventually add a recirculating air system (possibly with filtration) to bring all the hot air back down from the top of the enclosure to the bottom.


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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 12, 2017 08:45AM
Thanks for the update. Are those two 40mm blower fans you are using for print cooling, and if so, do they work well with PWM?

We could possibly get both the strain effector and piezo Z probe to give even more consistent results if I reduce the Z probe response time in RepRapFirmware, but I am not sure there is much point in doing so because we're already close to the limits of Z motion resolution on delta printers, and more than good enough for printing at 0.1mm layer height.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2017 08:47AM by dc42.

Delta printer calibration calculator, mini IR Z probe, and colour touch screen control panel: [escher3d.com]

Large delta printer, and other 3D printer blog postings: [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]

Disclosure: I have a financial interest in sales of the Panel Due, Mini IR height sensor, and Duet WiFi/Duet Ethernet [www.duet3d.com].
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 12, 2017 09:31AM
I agree we are probing as accurately and repeatably as 3D printing requires.

The fans are 30mm blowers and they pwm quite nicely from 30-100%. Seem to put out a pretty decent airflow at 5v but I'm told they work at 12v, though with reduced service life. I'm trying a diffuse airflow instead of highly ducted and I'm quite pleased with the results.

I have some surplus fans I'm selling in my shop:
[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2017 09:35AM by DjDemonD.

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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 16, 2017 05:23AM
Hi! Thanks for the very interesting information. I also built the same 3D printer. But I can not find the optimal retract settingssad smiley

My DuetWiFi config:
M201 E120 ; Accelerations (mm/s^2)
M203 E10000 ; Maximum speeds (mm/min)
M566 E60 ; Maximum instant speed changes mm/minute
M92 E2885 ; Steps per mm

Simplify3D Retraction Settings:
Retraction Distance: 0.80 mm
Retraction Vertical Lift: 0.30 mm
Retraction Speed: 30.0 mm.

Could you post your settings?


(sorry for my english)
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 16, 2017 07:44AM
My DuetWiFi config:
M201 E120 ; Accelerations (mm/s^2)
M203 E3600 ; Maximum speeds (mm/min)
M566 E40 ; Maximum instant speed changes mm/minute
M92 E2400 ; Steps per mm

Duet Hardware retraction settings:
M207 S1.0 F1800 Z0.3 : Distance 1.0mm, Speed 1800mm/min, Z-hop 0.3mm

Your English is excellent.

So my settings are almost the same. What issue are you having that you think is caused by poor retraction? Is it blobs or strings? What material are you printing with, and at what temperature?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2017 08:00AM by DjDemonD.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe.
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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 16, 2017 09:29AM
Quote
DjDemonD
What issue are you having that you think is caused by poor retraction? Is it blobs or strings? What material are you printing with, and at what temperature?
I'm trying to print Benchy, but I get blobs. I print PET-G (240°C).

Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 16, 2017 10:23AM
I am assuming you are using duet controller? Try setting a little pressure advance, depending on your setup you'll have to experiment with how much.

Do you have seams set to aligned or random, random seams will generate little zits like that.


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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 16, 2017 11:09AM
Quote
DjDemonD
Try setting a little pressure advance
You mean M572 command? Ok, i will try add "M572 D0 S0.1" to the config.g.
Thank you!
Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 16, 2017 11:47AM
Yes depends on your setup more if long bowden much less if direct drive. You can tune it with a simple object with a thin wall just look to see if the blob happens at the start or end of each layer, adjust it during the print.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2017 01:25PM by DjDemonD.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe.
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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 20, 2017 03:27PM
Enclosure project has begun. Apologies for the image orientation, the forum rotates them if they are portrait, click on the images to see them landscape.



The panels are 1mm transparent PETG 450mm(W) x890mm (H). They were cut to fit between the outer slots on the 2040 verticals, and just push into them. This creates a basically cylindrical shape. I had to move a few items, Nimble motor now on the back of the Z tower vertical, a few cables which were in the outer slots are now in the inner slots. A few cut-outs have been made in places but surprisingly few required. Being familiar with PETG it is a much nicer material to work with than acrylic, much less brittle, optically very clear, even when bent, and it can be cut fairly easily. It is quite flexible in this thickness to be bent sufficiently and does not seem in danger of cracking.

I divided the front panel into 2/3 above and 1/3 to act as the door through which prints can be removed. Some 3d printed lugs which twist into the slots on the extrusions prevent it slipping down 2020clipinholderforacrylicpanels.stl.



For now a little foil bubble wrap has been used to cover the gaps at the bases of the panels. I have used a large disc of foil bubble wrap (19", 482mm) as a lid for the enclosure for now.



Observations so far:

-With bed heater (450w) at 115 deg C, the chamber reaches 40 deg C. I suspect a lot of the heat is at the top of the enclosure, so I might for now try a small fan to bring it down. I have also considered ducting the output of the electronics exhaust fan, using a 3d printed right angled duct, with a wide diffuser up into the left side under the left side panel. During printing the exhaust air is always warm, I will measure to see if its more or less than 40 deg C.
-The printer is much noisier now the enclosure seems to be behaving like an echo chamber.
-As with previous enclosures, the machine now looks and "feels" very different, and everything is a PITA to get at. smiling smiley

Further things to do:
-Utilise the up to 7 temperature inputs on the duet board to monitor the chamber temperature at the print head and probably the bottom and top of the chamber, possibly using this to trigger a fan to recirculate air.
-If the chamber proves to be too cool to print large ABS parts, consider a PTC heater with fan, to thermostatically switch on to bring in more hot air when needed.
-Eventually a filtration system bringing hot air down from the top and recirculating it to the bottom, with hepa/charcoal filters in line, maybe even the ptc heater.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2017 03:33PM by DjDemonD.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe.
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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
September 24, 2017 03:38PM
So been testing this setup passively heats to around 36 deg C as an average with bed at 115. Not quite hot enough, but it is a large
volume. Printed a part with some long thin section without warp, and a cut away of a cylinder, which I would normally consider quite high risk for warp, without any problems in ABS.

Had one blocked nozzle which makes me wonder whether water cooling might be worth considering or maybe it was just a coincidence.

Not sure I'll keep the big foil bubble wrap lid, but I did add a spar to keep it from flopping around (small gardening bamboo cane and duck tape) and moved my LED's to its under-surface.

I've added two thermistors one at the base of the z tower and one at the top, surprisingly there is not much temperature difference between top and bottom, the hotend fan, and part fans must be circulating the air well. For heating, I have left over a 200w silicone heater pad (mains) so second ssr ordered, and an aluminium heatsink. This should make a nice convection heater and can be controlled to come on if chamber temp is under 45 deg C. To prevent over heating (if its a problem) and to assist in cooling the chamber after a print has finihed, I will fit an 80mm fan to the lid, which can be controlled to switch on over 50 deg C.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2017 03:40PM by DjDemonD.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe.
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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
October 03, 2017 03:17PM
So I have added a chamber heater its a 200w mains silicone heater bonded to an aluminium heatsink.


Its running off a AC-DC SSR 10A type Fotek (eBay) and connected to the duetwifi's e1 heater channel.

You can see I have attached earth wiring from the SSr backing plate, to the chamber heater's bracket, and then tested the earth bonding using a multimeter to ensure the bed, electronics enclosure base, SSR's backing plates, chamber heater bracket and heatsink are all directly connected to the earth in the mains plug for the printer, which sits in an RCD/GFID in case of a mains voltage short.

It has a thermistor just under the silicone heater, and is setup as a chamber heater in RRF's config.g using:

M305 P2 T100000 B3950 R4700 H30 L0 ; Put your own H and/or L values here to set the second nozzle thermistor ADC correction
M141 H2 ; heater 2 is the chamber heater

I ran heater tuning using M303 H2 S80 and saved the tuning using M500.

In order that it circulates heat around the chamber and to prevent it potentially heating up nearby objects, it sits above my electronics cabinet exhaust fan, which usually exhausts air at around 28 deg C from the electronics compartment containing a PSU, 2xSSR's and the Duetwifi controller. I have made a small air diverter to sit partially over the fan to duct a little pre-heated air over the heatsink.


I've just started testing it and with the heated bed on at 115 deg C the chamber heater set to 80 deg C the chamber achieves a temperature at the bottom of 45 deg C. Whats nice about this idea is that turning off the chamber heater means the chamber reduces in temperature as the air being ducted into it is slightly cooler.

What I cannot yet do is use RRF to monitor the chamber air temperature and control this heater. It might be difficult to this as both the bed and chamber heater are feeding heat into the system, and the bed cannot be reduced to lower the temperature if required. The other addition, a 120mm 24v fan to place in the lid. Originally intended to be used as a cooling device if it's getting too hot inside, but with the "cooler" air ducting from the electronics compartment this is probably unnecessary, or to use at the end of a print to automatically cool the chamber.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2017 03:48PM by DjDemonD.

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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
October 04, 2017 11:29AM
So it does work Wapinator 5000 print in ABS:


However I noticed since fitting the 120mm fan to the prototype lid (planning a slightly stiffer lid, possibly acrylic, at some point) heat is escaping from the fan, even when its off. so I will need a "valve" over the fan, maybe just some more insulation.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2017 01:54PM by DjDemonD.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe.
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Re: Large Kossel all metal delta build log
November 14, 2017 03:27PM
Okay, so after enclosing it, I got a few hotend jams, the air in the chamber is obviously not quite cold enough, especially when I was using the DDmaterial tungsten nozzle, which conducts heat much better than brass (up the damn heatbreak unfortunately). So its time for water cooling!

Since there is not currently an E3D official water block (I know one is due soon, but it won't fit the Smart Effector anyway), I ordered another blue anodised E3D threaded heatsink from Duet3D. I also ordered a water-cooling block from Dyze Design. Which is about the right size.

I took a hacksaw to the heatsink to cut away the fins on one side, fairly close to the central hole where the heatbreak is. Leave yourself a little thickness for strength, if you do this, and to allow you to file it flat afterwards, to ensure good contact with the waterblock. I didnt get it that flat as I foolishly tried to use the side of the stone wheel on my bench grinder, which is not easy to do as the heatsink rotates as you grind and doesn't leave a flat surface, so I finished it with a large file.



I was going to attach the waterblock, by drilling and tapping the fins on the heatsink, but the holes don't line up with the fins that well, and I'd have to use m2 screws which I don't have lying around. So I attached the water block to the heatsink using gardening wire and twisted it to get it tight. A liberal application of thermal transfer paste in between them.

Then rebuilt the effector, removing the wires that were previously for the hotend fan (now redundant), and repurposing them to conenct to a thermistor which has been glued into the heatsink, between the lowest two fins (where the highest temp should be), and on the other side of the heatsink to the waterblock, so I should be reading "worst-case" temperature.
Just to be clear here, my heater block is now using a pt100 sensor, the thermistor on the heatsink is additional to that and there to measure the effectiveness of the watercooling system.


In this image the waterblock is connected temporarily with twist ties, not strong enough, replaced with thicker wire.

I ran hoses and clips, a radiator at the top of the machine, with 120mm 24v fan, and a water pump with reservoir (smallest PC type watercooler I could find). Filled it with distilled water (silver coil for the reservoir on order to prevent microbes buidling up in there). And carefully checked for leaks, with a lot of towels under everything just in case. One fitting on the pump/reservoir unit leaked slightly as it was a fairly cheap moulding and a seam along one of the barbed fittings was slightly sharp. Lightly file these off before assembly. The pump is 12v so you can see a buck converter in parallel with the fan to provide 12v to the pump. These two are connected to a fan header on the duet (0.8A draw - 2A allowable) which is thermostatically switched on if the hotend temp goes above 45 deg C. I connected the hoses to my cable retractor so they coil nicely as the effector moves from z-max to the bed.


The part under the reservoir is just to raise it up, so that its the highest point in the system for filling, its now sat down lower on top of the Y tower.

Heatsink maintaining 30 deg C with heaterblock at 240 deg C, measuring the warmer side of the lowest fins. So fairly pleased with that.
My LED's on the Smart Effector stoped working as they are linked to hotend fan, so I could have run wires back to the fan header and connected them in parallel with the radiator fan and pump, but I had run out of cores on the network cables I am using, so instead I've joined the hotend fan header on the smart effector to the hotend heater connectors in parallel so the leds pulse on with the hotend heater, which looks quite cool during heating, but is actually quite stable once the hotend has reached set temperature.

The whole machine. I am going to get an acrylic top piece made to replace the insulation I'm currently using.

Sorry about the landscape orientation, click to view portrait.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2017 07:07AM by DjDemonD.

[www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile z-probe.
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