What do you think of this Chinese Delta all-metal printer? Is it worth the price?

Hi guys, I need a first 3D printer and I am weighing in my alternatives on a budget. Due to space restrictions I've settled on a delta configuration. Now this is my first printer i want to learn a bit, experiment a bit, fail a bit, et cand I don't want to burn a 600Eur+ hole in my pocket.

I am pretty impressed on what i see on this printer but:

- I guess it has the usual Mega/ramps1.4 which is somewhat weak for Deltas (but I wouldn't shoot myself for playing with it and burning it)
- Maybe an extrusion-based Delta printer would be better?
- Price is ok for my budget for a ply-with 3d printer but still, for a Chinese printer is is not very cheap

Thanks for your input.

Edit: I'm in UE btw, so alternatives might be suggested, although I don't think at this price I can find anything better (hope I'm wrong).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2015 07:16PM by realthor.

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Which printer are you talking about you need to provide a link to it to get any opinions on it

Doug

I don't know how I missed that I am sorry. Here it is:

[www.aliexpress.com]

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They list ABS but don't provide a heated bed nor a suitable PSU.
The bed is mounted on 4 points, so bed levelling will be difficult.
The carrier looks a bit weird. How do they provide a stable connection with the bearings? ( press and hope?)
The effector is small compared to the huge rod-ends. Binding? Also not enough room for a heatsink fan-duct.
They use alu-tubes and steel rods to stabilize the platform. Not a good idea when temperature changes.
Better use 3 alu-tubes and let the smooth rods flow vertically.
-Olaf

Quote
o_lampe
They list ABS but don't provide a heated bed nor a suitable PSU.
The bed is mounted on 4 points, so bed levelling will be difficult.
The carrier looks a bit weird. How do they provide a stable connection with the bearings? ( press and hope?)
The effector is small compared to the huge rod-ends. Binding? Also not enough room for a heatsink fan-duct.
They use alu-tubes and steel rods to stabilize the platform. Not a good idea when temperature changes.
Better use 3 alu-tubes and let the smooth rods flow vertically.
-Olaf

1) there is no picture of the PSU, and no space for one on the printer itself, it must be external which means laptop-sezed PSU (Power Supply: 12V 8.5A ).
2) 4 pints bed, good observation, it might be easy to modify though... drill another hole in between 2 of the existing ones.
3) force-fit maybe? no idea, good one again :-/
4) the heatsink/duct could be attached the way they show the laser diode module attachement? no idea about binding or what that is or why would that hapen ... is it when one set of arms is completely extended (towards parallel with bed)?
5) are you talking about ambient temp or heated bed temp? Isn't ambient temp going to affect any material, plastic or metal? only if the support would be ceramic there will be little to no expansion/contraction. If heated bed will be installed there can be insulation between heated bed and platform. If the printer would be enclosed then I can see your point.

Not tting a good score here.

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Yes Think I would agree with those comments I don't think the structure will be sufficiently stiff to counteract twisting Aluminium and still expand/Contract at different rates so will induce twisting.

Generally I am not impressed with it at all

Doug

Is there any specific chineese 3d printer I could consider for playing with before getting into the higher league ? - (I am looking at rostock max in the near future).

Thank you.

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I'd recommend
http://www.ebay.at/itm/Sintron-3D-Drucker-Kossel-Mini-Full-Set-w-Auto-level-for-RepRap-Rostock-Delta-/141753520190?
You can find a good Forum here:
http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?178,540379

It is about the same price as yours (you can find it on aliexpres too) - maybe even cheaper because Sintron says Taxfree to some countries.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/SINTRON-NEW-3D-Printer-Kossel-Mini-Full-Kit-w-Auto-Level-For-RepRap-Rostock-Delta/32418774991.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.1.RDdveZ&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_9

Got the sintron kit and I like it. They ship from Germany to other European countries, so no taxes. Quality is what you can expect for that price, but a good entry level kit with the possibility to upgrade a couple of things. If you want to upgrade some thing off the bat, just mail them and they make a new price for the kit without the selected parts.

just buy from robodigg. or makemicro.. all tried and tested by many people on this forum. the printer in the link is crap. also most chinese kits have crappy hotends and crappy power supplies so just order the hotend and psu separately from european/american sources if you dont want to go bald

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ekaggrat
just buy from robodigg. or makemicro.. all tried and tested by many people on this forum. the printer in the link is crap. also most chinese kits have crappy hotends and crappy power supplies so just order the hotend and psu separately from european/american sources if you dont want to go bald

...but for robotdigg it is $729,-
http://www.robotdigg.com/product/406

I do not know makemicro - and can not find it on Internet...

And the original question were:
-) less than EUR 600,- and
-) chineese Printer

So - Sorry - your Answer does not match the questions

P.S.: There are some issues with the printer from Sintron, but - as I did - you can solve them. (Thats why I mentioned the Reprap Forum regarding the Sintron-Printer)

@ekaggrat: Robodigg are still Chinese if I am not mistaking. Maybe they have a better product selection but those prices are not in my price range nor do I want to slash that kind of money for an intro to-play-with 3D printer. Your observation about hotend and power supply is right, those are badly finished (hot end) and underpowered (PS).

@Sir_Death: Chinese is not a requirement, just that for the money in my first example I can't find European options that I'd be satisfied with. Nor upwards that price.

Anyway, based on the comments here I might go for sourcing the parts and building a printer myself. More difficult but more rewarding too.

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as i said if you want to go bald you can choose a crappy kit. personally i can source printer kits for as little as 300 euros as i live in beijing , and if i source from parts even the best parts will add up to only 200 euros excluding the hot ends. any kit other than robodigg if by far CRAP .



also the kit from think3dprint3d is just 300 pounds. so y stick with bad chinese kits?

kossel

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2015 03:55AM by ekaggrat.

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ekaggrat
as i said if you want to go bald you can choose a crappy kit. personally i can source printer kits for as little as 300 euros as i live in beijing , and if i source from parts even the best parts will add up to only 200 euros excluding the hot ends. any kit other than robodigg if by far CRAP .



also the kit from think3dprint3d is just 300 pounds. so y stick with bad chinese kits?

kossel

I agree whole heartedly with you tho the Kossel Link you provided is 495 Pounds and is for the R3 machine I think you meant this one

Kossel R2 this one is on Offer to clear existing stocks and is priced at £300 + Vat and comes complete with a genuine E3D V6 hotend.

The R3 has all the 32 bit tweaks that in my eye makes the £135 difference very worth while (Duet 0.8.5 Plus DC42 Mini IR Sensor)

HTH Doug

That's a nice kit for ~EUR515 but still I would have a hard time justifying spending all that money for some technology that is still in its infancy. I wanted a chinese kit because I am willing to learn by breaking and upgrading gradually. I don't need 32bit for a first printer and I don't want to have it easy. I am not interested in printing yoda heads and pen holders so learning is key for me... to see what this could do and how it might help me around the house etc ... Once I am sure that it is a useful tool to have I can spend 1000+ but only once i'm confident.

I have settled on building one for parts. Thanks for your answers.

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Quote
realthor
That's a nice kit for ~EUR515 but still I would have a hard time justifying spending all that money for some technology that is still in its infancy. I wanted a chinese kit because I am willing to learn by breaking and upgrading gradually. I don't need 32bit for a first printer and I don't want to have it easy. I am not interested in printing yoda heads and pen holders so learning is key for me... to see what this could do and how it might help me around the house etc ... Once I am sure that it is a useful tool to have I can spend 1000+ but only once i'm confident.

I have settled on building one for parts. Thanks for your answers.

As I'm writing this text, my Sintron is printing this big Project (at 70% size):
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:723226
(All small parts are ready printed, started with big parts - first one is looking quite good.)

Did about two month on building/learning, (bought it in September this year)
Never had a 3D-printer before...
So for printing toys for my child, printing boxes and cases for electronic devices, replacing battery covers,.... - in my opinnion even this sintron-kit is good enough.

People are always saying that Chinese kits and electronics are crap, but from my experience, they're not. Sure they're not as good as say European or North American made, but for the price you pay for them, they're great. A Chinese kit would be just fine, and the Sintron thread on these forums is quite active. I recently bought a Folger Kossel 2020, and while the company is American, and I believe the aluminum is made in America as well, the electronics are cheap Chinese made stuff. Other than one motor seizing, I haven't had any problems with it. It's a $350 US kit from their website.

I see that you have chosen to source and construct your own though. Good luck, and keep us updated. We love to see what people make.

I'd love a delta but as the thread unfolded i started looking around and I realized I have power source from a good (old) IBM PC laying around, I even have a steel cube coffee table that is sturdy and welded so I guess the easiest option for me right now is to build a corexy. A sanguinolulu from a solidoodle 1st gen that a friend upgraded and I am already at the drawing board getting familiar with corexy belt routing and all that stuff.

With the chinese stuff I agree, people like bashing chinese stuff but many of them have quite substantially improved quality over the latest years and I understand that you have to put some extra work to get them the proper finish (hot-ends) or replace some of the weak electronics components that put you at risk of burning your electronics. I don't like spending my money outside of EU but well... EU provides me with such a salary that I am somehow forced to look for workarounds.

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Quote
realthor
I'd love a delta but as the thread unfolded i started looking around and I realized I have power source from a good (old) IBM PC laying around, I even have a steel cube coffee table that is sturdy and welded so I guess the easiest option for me right now is to build a corexy. A sanguinolulu from a solidoodle 1st gen that a friend upgraded and I am already at the drawing board getting familiar with corexy belt routing and all that stuff.

With the chinese stuff I agree, people like bashing chinese stuff but many of them have quite substantially improved quality over the latest years and I understand that you have to put some extra work to get them the proper finish (hot-ends) or replace some of the weak electronics components that put you at risk of burning your electronics. I don't like spending my money outside of EU but well... EU provides me with such a salary that I am somehow forced to look for workarounds.

Core XY Machines are cool. That will be my next printer, but unlike my current two (which came as kits), I plan on sourcing all the parts and putting it together, then eventually designing my own printer. I was going to try and build a Fusebox Core XY, which can be found here: FuseBox

When it comes to Chinese stuff though, a few years ago I would have stayed far away from any electronics from China, but in recent years, the quality has gone up, and the price, well if something doesn't work, you're not out to much money.

That one looks great. Good luck building it. Unfortunately I can't find alu extrusion in my area and ordering them from abroad costs too much. I would have built a delta with Ikea Kvartal triple curtain rail but that is too experimental for my skills. Maybe next time but I need badly a printer I have so many unfinished designs that i would like to experiment with .

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2015 02:20PM by realthor.

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realthor
That one looks great. Good luck building it. Unfortunately I can't find alu extrusion in my area and ordering them from abroad costs too much. I would have built a delta with Ikea Kvartal triple curtain rail but that is too experimental for my skills. Maybe next time but I need badly a printer I have so much unfinished designs that i would like to experiment with .

try looking at www.motedis.com for good priced Extrusion (they are in Germany) they also cut to size for free 20x20 is 3.20 eur per meter plus a delivery charge so not to expensive.

Doug

I hope your coffetable is truly rectilinear...

Regarding Robotdigg kits.
They are expensive because of shipping. ( the local offer is 200$ less )
I'd get the alu-corners and small alu-parts ( effector and carrier ) from them at much lower shipping rate and source the extrusions ( 2020 nut 6 ) and other stuff locally.
-Olaf

I have checked with a level, don't have another way to check the levelness of the structure and it seems pretty well done. I will actually see when I will mount the XY stage.

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The Sintron kit with shipping gets me to about 360Eur. I just found the banggood website I always tought it was in US when reading about it on forums. They have the DIY Geeetech Delta Rostock Mini G2s Dual Extruder 3D Printer Kit With Auto-leveling for 47Eur more (with free shipping).

Printing volume is less, at 170 x 200mm compared to Sintron's 200mm*250mm, which is a bit of a let down.

What do you think is it worth the price difference? I don't know how often I will use dual extruders but maybe the software/hardware combo for easy printing with dual extruders is just around the corner. I always wanted some soluble support material or fast, thick 0.8mm infill.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2015 06:00PM by realthor.

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This printer will be your first printer to see if this is a hobby that you want to take up in the future correct? I'd say go with the Sintron, get the bigger print volume, and if you conclude that 3D printing is something you want to continue with as a hobby, sink more money into a machine for faster and higher quality prints. If you think that dual extruders would be useful in the future, perhaps get an Hbot or CoreXY that has dual extruders. Should be more stable on those I think. But for now, to get your feet wet and to learn all about 3D printers, go Sintron, cheap, and lots of support for it on these forums.

This looks like a not too awful cheap chines starter

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SlowFoot
This looks like a not too awful cheap chines starter

Still small print size 160x230, no heated bed and although dual extruder Sintron seems better stll.

But SOOO many unflattering comments in the forums about their quality of the parts and the errors in design, with parts that impede each other's movement and that you need another printer just to print the bad parts, and you need to order traxxas ball ends... I might get to the price of another printer that I could buy from the beginning at a better quality.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2015 10:17AM by realthor.

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Dual extruders on a Delta is asking for trouble.
It's difficult enough to level both nozzles on a Cartesian printer, but without experience in delta calibration you end up with a nozzle scraping off the first layer.

Unless dc42 comes up with his tilting delta effector
-Olaf

Try this one. I got it from ebay, the quality is pretty decent, its a basic starter kit without many fancy features, but the price has reflected it already. I mean, you could always upgrade those fancy thingy later on, isn't it.

Kossel kit:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kwuson-Kossel-Mini-3D-Printer-DIY-Kit-w-Auto-level-for-RepRap-Rostock-Delta-/131577231369?hash=item1ea29d3809:g:~3oAAOSwjVVVpS-N

Kossel kit without eletronics:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kwuson-Kossel-Mini-3D-Printer-DIY-Kit-excl-electronics-boards-/131657875788?hash=item1ea76bc14c:g:AWQAAOSwbdpWUKf0

Realtor,
I think the sintron is the best bet. Their support is amazing. If you build your own expect to spend more. If you fry a component you might be lost as what to do. And buy a replacement part. Unless you already built a kit and know what you are doing. You might be way over your head making one from scratch. If u get stuck no one can help u.