Folger Tech Kossel 2020 Rev B: Complete Beginner

Hello,

I have been considering buying the Folger Tech Kossel 2020 Rev B. It's seemingly the cheapest printer for the quality and size you can print. I am a total beginner and have never built one of these kits before. I have a little experience with a Makerbot Rep 2 making small repairs and adjustments to it. I have also dabbled in Arudino programming and small electronic kits. I feel pretty confident in my ability to get this up and running. Should I? Are there any really important things I should know before I put the money into this? Are there any guides or hubs specific to this model? I can't seem to find any reviews or very thorough instructions. Is there a place for common problems, tips or upgrades relating to this model? I want to get into the community and am looking for a place to start.

Thank you!

You are just a few posts from the best source of support and help you will find.

As for buying, the kit is a ok starting point but you will probably replace a lot of parts from the kit over time. You will get a better printer for the same money if you source the parts yourself. Stronger 0.9 degree motors, 32 bit electronics, more accurate aluminum corners, a better extruder, sliders that don't have to be modified, wheels with better bearings and so on.

Good luck!

Slowfoot is right, you get what you pay for. However, most people seem to want a second printer at some point, rather than using their existing components / vitamins for a different design. So I think a cheap kit is a good place to get your feet wet and give you the experience and knowledge to try building other printer designs from scratch if the bug bites you.

Just realized you were asking about a delta, not the new 2020 extrusion Prusa i3 from FolgerTech. You can run delta style printers off of 8-bit boards, but you are pushing the boards to their limits, so you will want to avoid LCD panels except possibly very basic models.

Upgrading to a 32-bit board will likely be one of the first upgrades you make to the printer, second only to a new hotend from E3D if you have extruder issues. On the plus side, you can likely reuse the 8-bit board in your next printer, which is what I plan to do someday.

Timely post. I have just ordered 32 bit driver boards, magnetic ball joint parts and last night I printed carriages and an effector to fit the magnets to an E3d V6 head which can achieve higher temps.
I'm removing the Z probe, An inductive probe will not work on the Folger Tech kit because the RAMPS right under the plate makes the metallic footprint uneven. I may use FSR in the future.
Many of the parts from the Folger Tech 2020 Delta kit will end up back in the box they arrived in when I finish these basic improvements. I guess he had to keep the cost low by providing the cheaper older technology.
If I knew then what I know now I would build from scratch, not buy a kit. But the kit did force me to learn what I know now so I guess it was worthwhile from that perspective.
I probably could have done better to join a local maker club and ask questions first.

Hi All, I bought the Rev A Kossel kit a few months ago also as a complete novice to 3D printing. What sold me on this kit was the excellent build review on YouTube. All the caveats mentioned above are true of course. You are not getting the latest tech but mine works well. and I have learnt a lot. Which was the point. I've made the following mods from the Rev A spec: Hopefully Folger have picked up these point too in the Rev B kit.

Got rid of the belt tensioning system as it is completely unnecessary and a rubbish design, and fit a 10mm plywood plate to the top of the machine for improved rigidity

Got rid of the calibration probe. When 'calibrated' it told me there was a slope of 14mm from one side of my bed to the other. The software seemed to be adding the values for one row of measurement points onto the next row. I couldn't figure out how to overcome this. Calibrated the bed manually by the paper pinch method and it was fine.

After clumsily breaking the heat break of the supplied J head replaced this with an E3D v6 hot end and cooling fan. I live in the UK, a long way from Folger, and I wanted the new head ASAP

The H shaped acrylic mount for the electronics caused the USB plug to foul on the frame. Replaced this with a 10mm ply wood hexagon which also improved the insulation between the bed and the electronics.

Replaced as many as possible of the M3 slot nuts with M4 ones and use pan head screws. The heads of the M3 capscrews supplied are so small that they press into the plastic frame pieces and come loose.

I would prefer to have specified the wheel type carriages rather than the MGN12 linear rail because of the lower friction and the way the linear rails limit build height. My stepper motors get quite hot after a long print and having linear rails cost me about 50mm in build height due to the length of the rails. My build volume is 150mm dia x 220 high

Would I recommend this kit for another novice - yes. If you don't want to have to tinker with your printer don't buy a kit.

Full disclosure. I am a mechanical design engineer and in a previous job designed automated assembly machinary for a living. However I know very little about software or electronics.

I just built a chinese Kossel XL from HKBay. I wish I had seen the Folger Tech kit. In my opinion for the price it's a great kit. It has many little upgraded parts like twist lock t-nuts, aluminum corners, etc. I think you will do fine with just the kit to start with and the parts supplied are actually upgrades for most kits, like the 30 amp power supply, aluminum corners, covers for the extrusions, and 5 stepper boards (4 is normal). Honestly I would start with the just the kit and then pick upgrades as you find you need them. The only thing I might add is an FSR control kit for bed leveling, and I just checked again and I think you'll want a 210mm borosilicate glass plate for the bed. It looks like the supplied bed is aluminum only, while the ideal setup is aluminum, heater, then glass. Later you may also want a PEI sheet if you print a lot of ABS. A PEI sheet is around $40 for 1/16" and really adheres to ABS.

I had to cover my aluminum bed with glass. To make inductive probe working again I designed this simple adapter that combines proximity probe stability and ability to use on any surface.
Thingiverse files: [www.thingiverse.com]

Quote
KevinS
An inductive probe will not work on the Folger Tech kit because the RAMPS right under the plate makes the metallic footprint uneven. I may use FSR in the future.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2015 09:46PM by paul_delta.

Another type of Z probe that works on glass is my mini differential IR height sensor, [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]. It's small and light, and it will fit below the heatsink of an E3Dv6 hot end.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2015 03:34AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

nice concept dc42, so I bought one. Im hijacking, but do know anyone the make a metal effector for a kossel? One that works with e3d hot ends?

Quote
voi9viper
nice concept dc42, so I bought one. Im hijacking, but do know anyone the make a metal effector for a kossel? One that works with e3d hot ends?

Robotdigg makes a metal effector for a Kossel. However, I have reverted to a printed one because I needed to change the dimensions. They also have very nice metal carriages with built-in belt tension adjustment.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2015 07:05PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Hey all. I'm a noob in every sense of the word. Let me know if there's a better place for me to be asking this, but I made this post in another Folgertech Kossel thread without a reply so far.

I just assembled my first 3d printer kit. It's a Folgertech Kossel 2020 Rev B. Got everything together, all the wiring correct and connected it to my laptop. I downloaded Arduino, RepetierHost and Marlin firmware(Kossel Firmare(V2) 20tooth GT2 pulley firmware [shows up in Arduino as Marline_Delta2).
G code is a pain so far. I successfully set the Z min, so it passes the paper test at G X0 Y0 Z0. Now the instructions for how to calibrate min. x and y position are a little shoddy. My main problem (as far as I can tell) is that Repetier can't process negative values, so I can seemingly only effectively use 1/4 of my print bed space. (When I enter negative X or Y value to find X or Y min., It goes to 0. I fixed this problem when establishing Z0 by making the home/max. Z value larger to compensate for higher endstops, but I can't see how that would work for X and Y. Entering G28 homes my printer, so the endstops are engaged. That much is fine, but G29, which is supposed to activate the Z probe(?) (An inductive sensor), causes the hot end to move towards the z tower and begin climbing the towers, probing as it goes, so the z probe moves across the x/y axes as it should, but the z axis is engaged as well. The only reason I can come up with is that the command to tell the Z probe to come back down to detect the metal print bed isn't there, or something is wrong with it. So, the hot end comes down, senses the print bed, comes up, moves to the next spot and comes down to sense the print bed again, and so on-but it never comes down. Only up.
I appreciate any guidance. I'm really lost here.

Also, I installed a 3 Amp circuit breaker on the live wire, as recommended in the instructions. Is there any harm in doing that? It was working fine before, but I wanted to play it safe. Hoping it doesn't do more harm than good.
Thanks!

Quote
FirmwareFool
My main problem (as far as I can tell) is that Repetier can't process negative values, so I can seemingly only effectively use 1/4 of my print bed space.

Check your settings in RepetierHost if printer configured as Delta, not cartesian.

Ahh!
Haha! That explains a lot!
I'll give it a try. I'll be back to let you know if it works.
Thanks buddy!

Alright, so it looks more reasonable now, but I don't think that had an effect on the G29 command acting up (literally). The nozzle still moves towards the z tower and drags along the print bed momentarily (It would probably drag ALL the way across the radius were it not for my convex print bed shape) only to jump up and up until its running into the endstops (I learned after the first time to have my cursor on the Emergency stop button in Repetier when it starts to climb). I can't tell if I need to alter my Marlin firmware or the RepetierHost settings?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2015 09:45PM by FirmwareFool.

Quote
FirmwareFool
Alright, so it looks more reasonable now, but I don't think that had an effect on the G29 command acting up (literally). The nozzle still moves towards the z tower and drags along the print bed momentarily (It would probably drag ALL the way across the radius were it not for my convex print bed shape) only to jump up and up until its running into the endstops (I learned after the first time to have my cursor on the Emergency stop button in Repetier when it starts to climb. I can't tell if I need to alter my Marlin firmware or the RepetierHost settings?

First, check using M119 if firmware sees z-probe. Then set z-probe height in eeprom. This is the distance from the nozzle to position, when the bed triggers probe (red led is on).

PS: also check Z-probe coordinates for 3 points (in firmware and eeprom). It looks they are out of your range...

Well I'm pretty sure Repetier is recognizing my z probe. If I hold a piece of metal to the inductive sensor, it goes off, and the reading shows as triggered (opposite of endstop readings, when not homed). I'm not entirely sure what you mean by z probe height. Are you referring to the homing offset in EEPROM? I know I have to set the z probe offset, but there's not much in the way of instructions for doing that. It says to define the X Y and Z probe offset from extruder (I think that's supposed to be effector, not extruder). I'm going to try a different .ido to see if it makes a difference. Hopefully it works better. The Z probe offset in the firmware seems to be for a deployed (I'm assuming mechanical) probe, as opposed to the inductive sensor that I have. Not that I think that makes a big difference.

Here's a link to the instructions for reference. The X and Y min/max in the marlin firmware are not far off from a reasonable limit (I think -80 to 80 is good, at least for now).

[drive.google.com]

Use my configuration.h as starting point. Attached... for Repetier 0.92.6

Quote
FirmwareFool
Well I'm pretty sure Repetier is recognizing my z probe. If I hold a piece of metal to the inductive sensor, it goes off, and the reading shows as triggered (opposite of endstop readings, when not homed). I'm not entirely sure what you mean by z probe height. Are you referring to the homing offset in EEPROM? I know I have to set the z probe offset, but there's not much in the way of instructions for doing that. It says to define the X Y and Z probe offset from extruder (I think that's supposed to be effector, not extruder). I'm going to try a different .ido to see if it makes a difference. Hopefully it works better. The Z probe offset in the firmware seems to be for a deployed (I'm assuming mechanical) probe, as opposed to the inductive sensor that I have. Not that I think that makes a big difference.

Here's a link to the instructions for reference. The X and Y min/max in the marlin firmware are not far off from a reasonable limit (I think -80 to 80 is good, at least for now).

[drive.google.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2015 05:16PM by paul_delta.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

Are you sure you have the same printer as mine? Your configuration.h file looks wayyy different from mine. I also noticed you have an LCD, whereas I do not. I'm sure it wouldn't matter too much, I just don't want to enter anything too different. I see you have a different baudrate, and it mentions bluetooth. Are you certain this won't cause any different problems?

If you want to fix this issue - just compare your config with mine. I'm sure your z-probe has wrong NC/NO condition...

PS: bluetooth is off (-1) and if you don't need LCD just disable it, but it doesn't matter. My current firmware is Repetier 0.92.6

Quote
FirmwareFool
Are you sure you have the same printer as mine? Your configuration.h file looks wayyy different from mine. I also noticed you have an LCD, whereas I do not. I'm sure it wouldn't matter too much, I just don't want to enter anything too different. I see you have a different baudrate, and it mentions bluetooth. Are you certain this won't cause any different problems?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2015 05:15PM by paul_delta.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

Alright. I'll try that. In the other thread, I've learned that a G29 isn't necessary before printing, and Fattmann says he just prints things without it. I may try the springs-under-bed trick to make little adjustments too.
Thanks for the advice. I'll get Repetier FW and set it up.

Quote
paul_delta
If you want to fix this issue - just compare your config with mine. I'm sure your z-probe has wrong NC/NO condition...

PS: bluetooth is off (-1) and if you don't need LCD just disable it, but it doesn't matter. My current firmware is Repetier 0.92.6

Quote
FirmwareFool
Are you sure you have the same printer as mine? Your configuration.h file looks wayyy different from mine. I also noticed you have an LCD, whereas I do not. I'm sure it wouldn't matter too much, I just don't want to enter anything too different. I see you have a different baudrate, and it mentions bluetooth. Are you certain this won't cause any different problems?

Alright. I'll try that. In the other thread, I've learned that a G29 isn't necessary before printing, and Fattmann says he just prints things without it. I may try the springs-under-bed trick to make little adjustments too.
Thanks for the advice. I'll get Repetier FW and set it up.

Quote
paul_delta
I had to cover my aluminum bed with glass. To make inductive probe working again I designed this simple adapter that combines proximity probe stability and ability to use on any surface.
Thingiverse files: [www.thingiverse.com]

[attachment 67553 DSC_9676.jpg]
]

I like both dc42's and your solution but for those who already have the inductive probe this design is one of the few that can be used. Being one of the latter category, I wonder how can your solution be made more premanent as I wouldn't want to always manually attach it to the head for probing.

I am thinking of the pen-clicker cam mechanism that can be incorporated in the design and also another spring that keeps it from dragging on the bed would be necessary (a weak pen spring should do it).

I am unable to design in CAD a clicker mechanism for this probe so I was wondering if smarter guys out there would be interested in this idea.

Thanks.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2016 09:24AM by realthor.

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