Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

Has anyone changed out the plastic portion of the heat bed standoffs? i am wondering if there's some kind of adjustable arms to place the heatbed on, vs the clear plexi.

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iceman62
Hi

I was wondring if anyone could help me with a print size problem I am having. If I down load an STL file say like from Thingiverse and print it the print comes out to small but the if I go
into Object Placement in Repetier Host and scale it up 1.1 and then slice and print it comes out the right size. what would ihave to change so I don't have to re-scale the size before
I print?

It sounds to me that you have the wrong number of steps/mm configured in your firmware. Count the teeth on one of your pulleys, divide that number into 1600, and that gives the number of steps/mm you should have in your firmware configuration.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

So customer service did respond back to me and they are sending me more m4 t-nuts as well as the correct plastic piece for the extruder. I'm happy with the customer service, but both of these problems wouldn't have required me contacting them if they had any amount of quality inspection before shipping.

New problems....

1. The build guide on page 19 says to mount the effector using 4 M3x25 bolts and nylon nuts. The M3x25mm bolts are about 5 mm too long and hit the hot end cooling fins, making it impossible to put in all the way. I'm going to make a trip to the hardware store to buy different bolts.
2. I can't put together the sliders because I again don't have the right hardware. The build guide says to use M3x20mm bolts, which aren't listed in the hardware kit list and aren't included. I'm guessing they meant M3x25. The second problem is that I need to use a non-nylon M3 nut on the slider which isn't included. The M3 nylon nut does not fit in the slot (see page 9 of Kossel Rev B Build Guide).

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DGreen
New problems....

1. The build guide on page 19 says to mount the effector using 4 M3x25 bolts and nylon nuts. The M3x25mm bolts are about 5 mm too long and hit the hot end cooling fins, making it impossible to put in all the way. I'm going to make a trip to the hardware store to buy different bolts.

Turn them around so you put the nut on top.... (thats what I did, a much earlier kit although)

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DGreen
2. I can't put together the sliders because I again don't have the right hardware. The build guide says to use M3x20mm bolts, which aren't listed in the hardware kit list and aren't included. I'm guessing they meant M3x25. The second problem is that I need to use a non-nylon M3 nut on the slider which isn't included. The M3 nylon nut does not fit in the slot (see page 9 of Kossel Rev B Build Guide).

Can't help you much with that one, other then: knife + force would seem to solve the issue.

Here is an update for anyone thinking about buying this kit. It has been 3 days since receiving the wrong kit in the mail and I have not heard anything from Folger. I tried calling but no answer. I left a message but have not heard anything. Not sure what to do from here other then calling the authorities. So disappointing that a seemingly pretty good printer kit is undermined by CS and poor quality control.

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davidf01
I just received my kit and I'm extremely disappointed. Apparently they still cant pack and ship this product correctly. I have no metal corners, I have no carbon fiber rods, no packing list so I have no idea what should be in the box or not. The shipping label says "Rev A" and I ordered Rev B. I think somebody mixed the parts for the kossel and the I3. Some of the packages are not labeled at all. Here are some pictures of what was packed. Needless to say I'm a bit pissed off, I was going to build it this weekend but that's not going to happen now. I don't understand how this can still be happening after all this time. I'm thinking I should just return the whole kit because I cant trust that anything in this kit is correct. I emailed them and left a message but they don't do support on the weekends so I guess i'm SOL till Monday. And I also did not receive the roll of filament I ordered.

Does anyone know of another DIY kit I can order that has a little better quality control?

Edit: And nothing in the build PDF shows any parts that look like picture Kossel Kit8. Here is a link to my onedrive with the pictures. [1drv.ms]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2015 12:42PM by davidf01.

Giving them adequate time to respond would be a really novel idea, especially considering that the last 3 days have been a weekend . . . For myself, and many others, they always respond and address issues - per perhaps not as quickly as your impatience would desire . . .

- Tim

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davidf01
Here is an update for anyone thinking about buying this kit. It has been 3 days and I have not heard anything from Folger. I tried calling but no answer. I left a message but have not heard anything. Not sure what to do from here other then calling the authorities. So disappointing that a seemingly pretty good printer kit is undermined by CS and poor quality control.

Uhm, that's why you buythings through paypal and/or your credit card. You are protected as a buyer under the agreements in this. However, if you just bought it a few days ago and over the weekend, then you seem to be jumping the gun a bit.

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tadawson
Giving them adequate time to respond would be a really novel idea, especially considering that the last 3 days have been a weekend . . . For myself, and many others, they always respond and address issues - per perhaps not as quickly as your impatience would desire . . .

- Tim

Thanks Tim,

You seem to have contacted them them before. Please let me know how long I should wait before I should worry?

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davidf01

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tadawson
Giving them adequate time to respond would be a really novel idea, especially considering that the last 3 days have been a weekend . . . For myself, and many others, they always respond and address issues - per perhaps not as quickly as your impatience would desire . . .

- Tim

Thanks Tim,

You seem to have contacted them them before. Please let me know how long I should wait before I should worry?

Did you buy it with Paypal and/or a Credit card? Then there is no worry, you simply contact them and dispute the charges. Visa will refund you immediately while they investigate. Paypal will open a dispute with them and allow them to respond. However, shipping times from this company have varied from 1 week to 5 weeks depending on the amount of purchases they have. I just saw a post a few days ago that indicated shipping occurred within 7 days.

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thevisad

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davidf01

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tadawson
Giving them adequate time to respond would be a really novel idea, especially considering that the last 3 days have been a weekend . . . For myself, and many others, they always respond and address issues - per perhaps not as quickly as your impatience would desire . . .

- Tim

Thanks Tim,

You seem to have contacted them them before. Please let me know how long I should wait before I should worry?

Did you buy it with Paypal and/or a Credit card? Then there is no worry, you simply contact them and dispute the charges. Visa will refund you immediately while they investigate. Paypal will open a dispute with them and allow them to respond. However, shipping times from this company have varied from 1 week to 5 weeks depending on the amount of purchases they have. I just saw a post a few days ago that indicated shipping occurred within 7 days.

Thanks for the fast reply. Shipping is not the problem they did well shipping it pretty fast only 3 days. Like I said in my other post they shipped me a completely different printer then what I ordered. I ordered the Kossel and they shipped me the i3. All I am looking for is an email or quick message acknowledging they have my info and will address it today or something saying they are working on it. I'm assuming somebody else got the printer I ordered and may be contacting them also.

One other thing I noticed on my Rev B is very sticky sliders. Turns out two of my three carriages seem a bit narrow, causing the adjustable tension wheel to tilt and the post to rub against the 2020 beam. I filed a flat in the post to clear the beam and things are better, but they are still really tight on the beam (even the "good" one). These are all shots without any tension on the adjusting bolt, wasn't even installed at this point. Anyone else see something similar? Just curious if this is a bad print or bad model issue. Dimensionally they all seemed similar when I did a quick check with the calipers, what I didn't check was the wheels, maybe some a riding a little higher in the groove than others.

Here's the "good" one, slight tilt to the wheel, but there is still space between the wheel mounting post and the beam



Here's a "bad" one, you can see the support post is touching the beam



Head on shot to show the wheel cant



Here you can see the rubbing on the plastic. This the area I later filed flat to provide clearance.

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hideehoo
One other thing I noticed on my Rev B is very sticky sliders. Turns out two of my three carriages seem a bit narrow, causing the adjustable tension wheel to tilt and the post to rub against the 2020 beam. I filed a flat in the post to clear the beam and things are better, but they are still really tight on the beam (even the "good" one). These are all shots without any tension on the adjusting bolt, wasn't even installed at this point. Anyone else see something similar? Just curious if this is a bad print or bad model issue. Dimensionally they all seemed similar when I did a quick check with the calipers, what I didn't check was the wheels, maybe some a riding a little higher in the groove than others.

Here's the "good" one, slight tilt to the wheel, but there is still space between the wheel mounting post and the beam

Wow, I had expected the wheeled system to be at least semi accurate, but that plate is crap. In fact, the general take I get from the existing build is that this printer took a huge dive in quality with this build. VWheels + metal carriages all the way.

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DGreen
So customer service did respond back to me and they are sending me more m4 t-nuts as well as the correct plastic piece for the extruder. I'm happy with the customer service, but both of these problems wouldn't have required me contacting them if they had any amount of quality inspection before shipping.

New problems....

1. The build guide on page 19 says to mount the effector using 4 M3x25 bolts and nylon nuts. The M3x25mm bolts are about 5 mm too long and hit the hot end cooling fins, making it impossible to put in all the way. I'm going to make a trip to the hardware store to buy different bolts.
2. I can't put together the sliders because I again don't have the right hardware. The build guide says to use M3x20mm bolts, which aren't listed in the hardware kit list and aren't included. I'm guessing they meant M3x25. The second problem is that I need to use a non-nylon M3 nut on the slider which isn't included. The M3 nylon nut does not fit in the slot (see page 9 of Kossel Rev B Build Guide).

Ya, my Rev B kit was also completely devoid of M3x20mm bolts (needs to build the carriage blocks at a minimum) and regular M3 nuts (also needs for the molded indents on the carriage blocks as you point out). I did have lots of M3x25mm bolts, so I just cut them down to 20mm as needed. An electricians tool with a 3mm bolt cutter makes quick work of this, something like this

[www.amazon.com]

Was also short on M3 TNuts, you need at least 17 to build the kit.

6 for the bed mounts
4 for the PSU bracket
3 for the end stops (although installing two on each bracket here makes a sturdier mount)
2 for the extruder
2 for the filament holder

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hideehoo
One other thing I noticed on my Rev B is very sticky sliders. Turns out two of my three carriages seem a bit narrow, causing the adjustable tension wheel to tilt and the post to rub against the 2020 beam. I filed a flat in the post to clear the beam and things are better, but they are still really tight on the beam (even the "good" one). These are all shots without any tension on the adjusting bolt, wasn't even installed at this point. Anyone else see something similar? Just curious if this is a bad print or bad model issue. Dimensionally they all seemed similar when I did a quick check with the calipers, what I didn't check was the wheels, maybe some a riding a little higher in the groove than others.

Single bearing rolls?

Now I know what those springs that came with the kit were for!

---

darkROBOTsystems

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dc42

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SlowFoot
Thanks!
I have access to a workshop so I can machine the parts and/or make custom shims. But I still need an idea of what a reasonable tolerance is. At what level will the error drown in the general noise?

That's a very good question. I haven't done a mathematical analysis of the effects of different bearing spacings at either end of a pair of diagonal rods, or of the effects of the two rods in a pair having slightly different lengths. I have not seen any such analysis either. Maybe I'll do one when I have more time. All I know is that my effector does tilt slightly, and I compensate for the resulting probe height errors in the calibration macro file. Reducing the bearing spacing difference from 0.35mm to 0.1mm didn't help, so the problem must lie elsewhere in my build.

I built a simulator in the CAD, it is a bit of a beast to work with but I got some results.
0.5 mm wider between the balls joints, symmetrical error, at one carriage, give an error of less then a micron at the nozzle.
I only tested three positions so far I will play more another day.

Cheers!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2015 04:05PM by SlowFoot.

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davidf01

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tadawson
Giving them adequate time to respond would be a really novel idea, especially considering that the last 3 days have been a weekend . . . For myself, and many others, they always respond and address issues - per perhaps not as quickly as your impatience would desire . . .

- Tim

Thanks Tim,

You seem to have contacted them them before. Please let me know how long I should wait before I should worry?

Typically I hear back in three days or so, but on occasion it has been up to a week. The key is that in the 6 or 7 times I have contacted them, they have never failed to respond, and even live called me once . . . Did you use the form on thier page,email '[email protected]' or what, exactly? (I saw that you called . . . ). I always send a detailed message with my issue and what is needed, and the reply is most often 'parts on the way' . . . my point being, the more detail provided, the better!

- Tim

Saying hi! here. I ordered my kossel 2020 rev b kit on the folgertech site, along with their simple $12 lcd+sd reader.

It arrived about 1 week after ordering and I did a quick inventory and it seems complete and undamaged so far (holding my breath until I am done building). Everything was packed with minimal padding but appears undamaged.

First thing I did after looking throught the packets in the box was to separate and count the contents of the hardware pack. Was happy to find a few over the specified count of most nuts and bolts.

Second thing I did was go out for ball-ended hex keys. The aluminum corners bury the motor bolts, adding bolt access holes could help. The corners also needed some squeezing to triangle up, but then they did deliver a stiff triangle. Home depot did have acceptable 2,2.5,3mm metric ball hex keys but only as part of a complete sae/metric set, so I have a lifetime supply of hex keys now : ].

Regarding support, I had a couple questions so I replied to my original order email with them and got ok answers in a few business days. So far the big gap has been the rev B build guide which is in a bit of a draft state. Folgertech recommended falling back to the original guide for some details (motor driver calibration and firware setup).

So far the kit is as promised and the parts feel stiff so as long as everything is here and works then I should end up with a nice printer. But the packing / support / build guide also feel a bit iffy, it was only because it was shipped from the US that I was ok buying it, and I won't be confidently satisfied until I am happily printing.

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hideehoo
One other thing I noticed on my Rev B is very sticky sliders. Turns out two of my three carriages seem a bit narrow, causing the adjustable tension wheel to tilt and the post to rub against the 2020 beam. I filed a flat in the post to clear the beam and things are better, but they are still really tight on the beam (even the "good" one). These are all shots without any tension on the adjusting bolt, wasn't even installed at this point. Anyone else see something similar? Just curious if this is a bad print or bad model issue. Dimensionally they all seemed similar when I did a quick check with the calipers, what I didn't check was the wheels, maybe some a riding a little higher in the groove than others.

Here's the "good" one, slight tilt to the wheel, but there is still space between the wheel mounting post and the beam

flic.kr

Here's a "bad" one, you can see the support post is touching the beam

flic.kr

Head on shot to show the wheel cant

flic.kr

Here you can see the rubbing on the plastic. This the area I later filed flat to provide clearance.

flic.kr

Have you contacted Folger about these sliders? Are they going to send you new carriages or better fitting ones?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2015 04:30PM by davidf01.

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tadawson

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davidf01

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tadawson
Giving them adequate time to respond would be a really novel idea, especially considering that the last 3 days have been a weekend . . . For myself, and many others, they always respond and address issues - per perhaps not as quickly as your impatience would desire . . .

- Tim

Thanks Tim,

You seem to have contacted them them before. Please let me know how long I should wait before I should worry?

Typically I hear back in three days or so, but on occasion it has been up to a week. The key is that in the 6 or 7 times I have contacted them, they have never failed to respond, and even live called me once . . . Did you use the form on thier page,email '[email protected]' or what, exactly? (I saw that you called . . . ). I always send a detailed message with my issue and what is needed, and the reply is most often 'parts on the way' . . . my point being, the more detail provided, the better!

- Tim

So I did hear from Folger and we worked it out so I will have my printer this weekend and will ship the one they sent me back to them. They were helpful in working around my schedule since I have a busy travel schedule the next few weeks. I will be trying to assemble the printer when I'm home. A question to everyone that has put one of these together in the last few months how did you find the instructions and is there anything I should keep an eye out for while assembling this printer?

Also I'm planing on getting a LCD for it and have read that there may be some issues hooking up the LCD due to some power issues? Is there and info around I can read about how to install a LCD?

Thanks

Awesome! Instructions are in the google drive which is on the ebay auction.

The lcd panel requires a lot of power and the cheap ramps and mega you get has known issues. I wouldbupgrade to a sainsmart mega. My sainsmart had no issues powering both servo and the lcd. Alternatively you can power the mega 5v rail with a seperate power supply and this resolves the issue.

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thevisad
Awesome! Instructions are in the google drive which is on the ebay auction.

The lcd panel requires a lot of power and the cheap ramps and mega you get has known issues. I wouldbupgrade to a sainsmart mega. My sainsmart had no issues powering both servo and the lcd. Alternatively you can power the mega 5v rail with a seperate power supply and this resolves the issue.

Thanks for the info. I will update to a sainsmart mega when I'm ready. I have been looking at the instructions and cant seem to find any information about how to get the firmware and software installed. Is there some info in the box? I don't see it on the google docs page inless I have the wrong page.

Edit: I see what is going on the RevB google docs page does not have some of the PDF's from the REV A page. I guess I'm a bit confused on what software this printer uses. Does it use Repetier or Pronterface?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2015 08:17PM by davidf01.

Does anyone use the newest Cura? I have been using Cura 15.02 and am looking to go the latest version but they changed machine settings to use a '.json' file. anyone have that worked out yet?

Thanks for the help

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davidf01

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thevisad
Awesome! Instructions are in the google drive which is on the ebay auction.

The lcd panel requires a lot of power and the cheap ramps and mega you get has known issues. I wouldbupgrade to a sainsmart mega. My sainsmart had no issues powering both servo and the lcd. Alternatively you can power the mega 5v rail with a seperate power supply and this resolves the issue.

Thanks for the info. I will update to a sainsmart mega when I'm ready. I have been looking at the instructions and cant seem to find any information about how to get the firmware and software installed. Is there some info in the box? I don't see it on the google docs page inless I have the wrong page.

Edit: I see what is going on the RevB google docs page does not have some of the PDF's from the REV A page. I guess I'm a bit confused on what software this printer uses. Does it use Repetier or Pronterface?

Pronterface is just the front end. You can use repetier, cura, simplify3d or and others like the stuff from 123 design.The firmware is marlin by default, but there are different firmwares you can use as well. The software affects slicing time and quality. I use simplify3d as it sliced fast and provides nice print quality

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thevisad

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davidf01

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thevisad
Awesome! Instructions are in the google drive which is on the ebay auction.

The lcd panel requires a lot of power and the cheap ramps and mega you get has known issues. I wouldbupgrade to a sainsmart mega. My sainsmart had no issues powering both servo and the lcd. Alternatively you can power the mega 5v rail with a seperate power supply and this resolves the issue.

Thanks for the info. I will update to a sainsmart mega when I'm ready. I have been looking at the instructions and cant seem to find any information about how to get the firmware and software installed. Is there some info in the box? I don't see it on the google docs page inless I have the wrong page.

Edit: I see what is going on the RevB google docs page does not have some of the PDF's from the REV A page. I guess I'm a bit confused on what software this printer uses. Does it use Repetier or Pronterface?

Pronterface is just the front end. You can use repetier, cura, simplify3d or and others like the stuff from 123 design.The firmware is marlin by default, but there are different firmwares you can use as well. The software affects slicing time and quality. I use simplify3d as it sliced fast and provides nice print quality

Ok so I install the firmware then I can use a different frontend like repetier or simplify3d? (does repetier include Sli3er?) So if the software effects quality what is concidered a good software to product the best prints?

Software will not affect print quality at all...
Calibration and the physical accuracy of the build determine print quality...
All the software have about the same features, - it's just comes down to personal preference as far as the layout of the software...
IMO - Cura (up to v15.04)is the easiest all in one solution, however I still just use pronterface for sending Gcode for calibration operations and loading/changing filament.

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Flish
Software will not affect print quality at all...
Calibration and the physical accuracy of the build determine print quality...
All the software have about the same features, - it's just comes down to personal preference as far as the layout of the software...
IMO - Cura (up to v15.04)is the easiest all in one solution, however I still just use pronterface for sending Gcode for calibration operations and loading/changing filament.

That is actually incorrect, the software has a huge impact on print quality. What do you think tells the firmware where and when to move the tip? Your printer is only as good as the software that drives it. There are numerous reports of users having issues with walls not being straight. When switching to Simplfy3d everything was corrected. I was one of these users, with zero changes on the printer, dialed in perfectly and the only difference was Pronterface/slicer and Simplify3d, I saw massive improvements in the print quality when switching to Simplify.

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davidf01

Ok so I install the firmware then I can use a different frontend like repetier or simplify3d? (does repetier include Sli3er?) So if the software effects quality what is concidered a good software to product the best prints?

I would play with the free ones first, using Pronterface first, then try Repetier. Unfortunately, there are no demos for Simplfy3d for you to download, it's buy to try.

Repetier is an alternative that is a triple threat, server, client (Repetier-Host) and firmware. You can install any or all of them to your desire. The server is really cool allowing you to connect multiple printers to the machine and then the client to the server portion. The current version is in beta and allows the features of the paid version which is 49 euros to purchase. The client comes with support for 2 slicers built in, Slicer and Skeniforge; however, you have to provide these for the system. CuraEngine is the default slicer with this and is pretty fast. I was comparing the slicing to Simplify's last night and they are similar.

Cura is pretty popular, I have not used it myself, but it's provides a good feature set similar to Repetier and Simplify3d. It's a free alternative to Simplify

Simplify3d is a very popular and highly advanced system with its own built in slicer. It's considered to be the fastest slicer on the market and provides some very high quality prints from the slicing. I have printed things with Simplfy that would not even slice on other tools. The problem with this is its 150$ for a two computer license, you can move it to other computers with little effort in version 3.

pronterface is the old standby it's what comes with the printer configured and what a lot of people use. It's simply, does the job and works with Slicer out of the box.

123dApp is owned by Autodesk and is their offering into the 3d printer market. I use Meshmixer to repair models that the slicers have issues with. It works with some printers out of the box, but not reprap style printers. Best of all, the entire suite of tools are free.

There are others, but these are the primary ones that are in use besides the custom softwares and versions dedicated to the branded printers.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2015 11:21PM by thevisad.

It lives! Using the latest Repeiter firmware and host, with Slicr doing the slicing inside of Repeiter. Pretty much all defaults at this point. These are the first prints after a rough calibration. 10mm cube came out a little rectangular (9.5mm x 10.2mm) and I need to recal with the bed and hotend heated to account for expansion (first layer was really squished). Raised the Z by 0.3mm on the next print, dropped the PLA temp to 190, and Marvin came out pretty good.

Well, I stand (partially) corrected - all the free software produces about the same print quality (seen this firsthand and is not open for debate ) Simplify 3D might be worth the price... don't know firsthand about this one though. I mean, don't get the idea that you can have a machine not dialed in properly and have $150 magic software make up for that.
Whats with the slicing time? I've not see complicated large models take any more than 2 minutes to slice with the free offerings. However, this might be more dependent on the computer running the slicer... This certainly isn't a time bottleneck for the 3dprinting process though. Still, this wouldn't be a selling point for me.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2015 02:36AM by Flish.