Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

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cman8

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3D52

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davidf01
So I can get this straight I should plan on updating or adding:

1. update stepper motors to either the 76oz motors Seriouspete posted or the 0.9° step angle motors Koenig posted a few posts above.
2. update electronics to a Smoothieboard or some other board
3. update the extruder
4. Add some cooling fans to the steppers, or will upgrading them be good enough?

Anything else I'm missing?

What I would do if I were you, is get the printer, put it together, get it set up and working rite then you can upgrade the components if you want to. It prints really well the way it is. I've had mine about 3 1/2 months and use it daily and it's stock but now I want to make it better. Just my 2 cents worth..

Steve

+1 on this. get the kinks out. learn what needs to be adjusted and get it printing right. Then start upgrading to get even better quality prints. Thatas what Ive been doing and having a blast doing so.

I agree - i have been slowly learning about the quirks and things that it does well - having a great time upgrading/changing things around - sometimes more than printing!

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davidf01
So I can get this straight I should plan on updating or adding:

1. update stepper motors to either the 76oz motors Seriouspete posted or the 0.9° step angle motors Koenig posted a few posts above.
2. update electronics to a Smoothieboard or some other board
3. update the extruder
4. Add some cooling fans to the steppers, or will upgrading them be good enough?

Anything else I'm missing?

That you don't "need" to do any of that. The printer will actually work out of the box pretty well. So you may wish to build that and see how it all goes together before spending a bunch of more money on things.

The 4.3 inch tft screen for the PanelDue ( PanelDue bought directly from dc42 ) came in today, here is a picture of the assembled unit for those that want a nice closeup shot of it. This is the ebay screen, not the iTead screen. The quality of the PanelDue board, versus the Duets I have been getting, is top notch. I had to flash the firmware on the board prior to using it with this screen as it had a white screen, but as soon as it reset the screen came active and worked with out an issue. Great addon to the Duet for anyone looking for a top quality screen for it.

So my Folger Tech Kossel kit came in the mail the other day and so far I'm pretty disappointed. They didn't supply me with enough t-nuts and then this...

Anyone else with the kit noticed this black plastic piece being backwards? Notice where the feed hole is compared to the brass fitting. I can't flip the machined aluminum around because it's asymmetrical and I can't flip the plastic piece around because it has an indention on the back to fit flush on the motor. Any ideas? Am I missing something here?

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DGreen
So my Folger Tech Kossel kit came in the mail the other day and so far I'm pretty disappointed. They didn't supply me with enough t-nuts and then this...

Anyone else with the kit noticed this black plastic piece being backwards? Notice where the feed hole is compared to the brass fitting. I can't flip the machined aluminum around because it's asymmetrical and I can't flip the plastic piece around because it has an indention on the back to fit flush on the motor. Any ideas? Am I missing something here?

Hi!
I have an unassembled kit and my extruder is mirrored from yours. Ticket Folger Tech, someone, somewhere in china messed up.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2015 01:02AM by SlowFoot.

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3D52

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davidf01
So I can get this straight I should plan on updating or adding:

1. update stepper motors to either the 76oz motors Seriouspete posted or the 0.9° step angle motors Koenig posted a few posts above.
2. update electronics to a Smoothieboard or some other board
3. update the extruder
4. Add some cooling fans to the steppers, or will upgrading them be good enough?

Anything else I'm missing?

What I would do if I were you, is get the printer, put it together, get it set up and working rite then you can upgrade the components if you want to. It prints really well the way it is. I've had mine about 3 1/2 months and use it daily and it's stock but now I want to make it better. Just my 2 cents worth..

Steve

Thanks Steve, that is my plan. I'm just lining up the upgrades and parts to use when I do plan on upgrading.

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davidf01

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3D52

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davidf01
So I can get this straight I should plan on updating or adding:

1. update stepper motors to either the 76oz motors Seriouspete posted or the 0.9° step angle motors Koenig posted a few posts above.
2. update electronics to a Smoothieboard or some other board
3. update the extruder
4. Add some cooling fans to the steppers, or will upgrading them be good enough?

Anything else I'm missing?

What I would do if I were you, is get the printer, put it together, get it set up and working rite then you can upgrade the components if you want to. It prints really well the way it is. I've had mine about 3 1/2 months and use it daily and it's stock but now I want to make it better. Just my 2 cents worth..

Steve

Thanks Steve, that is my plan. I'm just lining up the upgrades and parts to use when I do plan on upgrading.

The three upgrades that I did that I feel has made the most difference is:

Glassbed - PLA and PETG prints directly on it, no need for anything else, no tape, no glue... and usually the prints just pop off when cooling down
Bulldog extruder - It's springloaded, just press and change the filament, I would not have bought this paticular one if did it over again I would have gone for a MK8 or something like that, much cheaper but the same function
Third place gets split by metalcorners (robotdigg) and new more powerful steppers

Folgertech seems to have remedied two of those already, metalcorners (seems like they have a little dodgy precision though) and the extruder.

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thevisad
The 4.3 inch tft screen for the PanelDue ( PanelDue bought directly from dc42 ) came in today, here is a picture of the assembled unit for those that want a nice closeup shot of it. This is the ebay screen, not the iTead screen. The quality of the PanelDue board, versus the Duets I have been getting, is top notch. I had to flash the firmware on the board prior to using it with this screen as it had a white screen, but as soon as it reset the screen came active and worked with out an issue. Great addon to the Duet for anyone looking for a top quality screen for it.

Thanks for the recommendation! Can you provide a link to the display you used, so that I can add to to the list of supported displays? I presume you have the jumper set to 3.3V.

One day I'll get round to designing some nice graphical buttons to improve the presentation.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2015 03:08AM by dc42.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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3D52

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Seriouspete
These are the ones I bought, Ebay. I'd buy them again if I ever build another printer.

Edit. I also upgraded my electronics to a Smoothieboard, I am really happy with that too. Makes configuration extremely easy, and it's a High Quality board that works right out of the box. Their documentation is pretty good too.

I ordered the same steppers yesterday, also ordered a Smoothieboard from Uberclock. How long did it take for you to get your Smoothieboard? Ordered this extruder today, I think it will work well.

Steve

I think I ordered my Smoothieboard on a sunday and it arrived on wed or Thursday. Came from Idaho to NH.

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davidf01

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3D52

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davidf01
So I can get this straight I should plan on updating or adding:

1. update stepper motors to either the 76oz motors Seriouspete posted or the 0.9° step angle motors Koenig posted a few posts above.
2. update electronics to a Smoothieboard or some other board
3. update the extruder
4. Add some cooling fans to the steppers, or will upgrading them be good enough?

Anything else I'm missing?

What I would do if I were you, is get the printer, put it together, get it set up and working rite then you can upgrade the components if you want to. It prints really well the way it is. I've had mine about 3 1/2 months and use it daily and it's stock but now I want to make it better. Just my 2 cents worth..

Steve

Thanks Steve, that is my plan. I'm just lining up the upgrades and parts to use when I do plan on upgrading.

I agree with what the get it working first sentiment, however my Ramps board never worked right for me, maybe it was something I did, maybe not. After I tried replacing the motor drivers, I decided rather than buy a new Ramps and find out the Arduino was bad, then buying a new arduino or doing vice versa. Instead I decided just to go straight to a smoothie, since the features it has far exceed my expectations. Plenty of people get good or great quality prints from Arduino's but it's just not worth the frustration to me.

So here is a list of things I upgraded on my folger tech.

Aluminum Corners from RobotDigg
Steel Shaft Rods
Aluminum Carriage
20 tooth pulleys for top end
E3D V6 + Volcano Eruption Pack
Smoothieboard

I also bought an aluminum end effector, but it doesnt fit snug with the e3d v6 so...

I recently built and began using this end effector, still in the semi-calibration phase.
[www.thingiverse.com]

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Seriouspete

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davidf01

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3D52

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davidf01
So I can get this straight I should plan on updating or adding:

1. update stepper motors to either the 76oz motors Seriouspete posted or the 0.9° step angle motors Koenig posted a few posts above.
2. update electronics to a Smoothieboard or some other board
3. update the extruder
4. Add some cooling fans to the steppers, or will upgrading them be good enough?

Anything else I'm missing?

What I would do if I were you, is get the printer, put it together, get it set up and working rite then you can upgrade the components if you want to. It prints really well the way it is. I've had mine about 3 1/2 months and use it daily and it's stock but now I want to make it better. Just my 2 cents worth..

Steve

Thanks Steve, that is my plan. I'm just lining up the upgrades and parts to use when I do plan on upgrading.

I agree with what the get it working first sentiment, however my Ramps board never worked right for me, maybe it was something I did, maybe not. After I tried replacing the motor drivers, I decided rather than buy a new Ramps and find out the Arduino was bad, then buying a new arduino or doing vice versa. Instead I decided just to go straight to a smoothie, since the features it has far exceed my expectations. Plenty of people get good or great quality prints from Arduino's but it's just not worth the frustration to me.

So here is a list of things I upgraded on my folger tech.

Aluminum Corners from RobotDigg
Steel Shaft Rods
Aluminum Carriage
20 tooth pulleys for top end
E3D V6 + Volcano Eruption Pack
Smoothieboard

I also bought an aluminum end effector, but it doesnt fit snug with the e3d v6 so...

I recently built and began using this end effector, still in the semi-calibration phase.
[www.thingiverse.com]

I like that end effector a lot, does it work good? Where did you get your Steel Shaft Rods?

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3D52

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Seriouspete

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davidf01

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3D52

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davidf01
So I can get this straight I should plan on updating or adding:

1. update stepper motors to either the 76oz motors Seriouspete posted or the 0.9° step angle motors Koenig posted a few posts above.
2. update electronics to a Smoothieboard or some other board
3. update the extruder
4. Add some cooling fans to the steppers, or will upgrading them be good enough?

Anything else I'm missing?

What I would do if I were you, is get the printer, put it together, get it set up and working rite then you can upgrade the components if you want to. It prints really well the way it is. I've had mine about 3 1/2 months and use it daily and it's stock but now I want to make it better. Just my 2 cents worth..

Steve

Thanks Steve, that is my plan. I'm just lining up the upgrades and parts to use when I do plan on upgrading.

I agree with what the get it working first sentiment, however my Ramps board never worked right for me, maybe it was something I did, maybe not. After I tried replacing the motor drivers, I decided rather than buy a new Ramps and find out the Arduino was bad, then buying a new arduino or doing vice versa. Instead I decided just to go straight to a smoothie, since the features it has far exceed my expectations. Plenty of people get good or great quality prints from Arduino's but it's just not worth the frustration to me.

So here is a list of things I upgraded on my folger tech.

Aluminum Corners from RobotDigg
Steel Shaft Rods
Aluminum Carriage
20 tooth pulleys for top end
E3D V6 + Volcano Eruption Pack
Smoothieboard

I also bought an aluminum end effector, but it doesnt fit snug with the e3d v6 so...

I recently built and began using this end effector, still in the semi-calibration phase.
[www.thingiverse.com]

I like that end effector a lot, does it work good? Where did you get your Steel Shaft Rods?

It does so far, however the models uploaded, a few are in incorrect units, so I had to scale, then do a little polishing of the final product to get them to fit together and function. I'll be doing a high quality print of it again in the near future, probably in ABS. It's the first time ive been able to run auto cal. All the other various methods I tried ended with the probe missing the build platform during a step. Manual cal I have never been patient enough to get dialed in real well.

I got the rods off of Ebay

It does, I got the rods from Sintron on ebay. It might have been unnecessary, but I trust those rods better than my hand cut rods.

So the STL files are not correct?

Found a nice USB cable to clear the tight Ramps install.

Right angle USB plug

Got my Rev B kit today, ordered last Sunday (8/16). Everything was well packed, no missing parts. Printed parts look OK and the corners are using M4x10mm bolts and T-Nuts (I think someone mentioned they got M3 earlier in this thread). There's still the angle issue with the metal corners, but it's not hard to get everything fitted together loosely and then tighten them down. So far I'm still very happy for the price paid. Now to get it completely built and printing...

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hideehoo
Got my Rev B kit today, ordered last Sunday (8/16). Everything was well packed, no missing parts. Printed parts look OK and the corners are using M4x10mm bolts and T-Nuts (I think someone mentioned they got M3 earlier in this thread). There's still the angle issue with the metal corners, but it's not hard to get everything fitted together loosely and then tighten them down. So far I'm still very happy for the price paid. Now to get it completely built and printing...

flic.kr

hideehoo,

I should be getting my kit soon also. Whats the angle issue with the metal corners you talked about?

Just got mine built a few days ago. I've managed to get out a couple of prints but still trying to dial it in. The kit went together, eventually. I'm not one to shy away from the dremel! Thanks for the build and setup manuals. I'm still trying to figure out the auto bed leveling. In order to auto-level the bed I just input G29? If I input G28 does that negate the bed leveling?

Overall, for the price it's pretty good and I'm very happy with the results.

Here's my build blog:

[darkrobotsystems.wordpress.com]

I just received my kit and I'm extremely disappointed. Apparently they still cant pack and ship this product correctly. I have no metal corners, I have no carbon fiber rods, no packing list so I have no idea what should be in the box or not. The shipping label says "Rev A" and I ordered Rev B. I think somebody mixed the parts for the kossel and the I3. Some of the packages are not labeled at all. Here are some pictures of what was packed. Needless to say I'm a bit pissed off, I was going to build it this weekend but that's not going to happen now. I don't understand how this can still be happening after all this time. I'm thinking I should just return the whole kit because I cant trust that anything in this kit is correct. I emailed them and left a message but they don't do support on the weekends so I guess i'm SOL till Monday. And I also did not receive the roll of filament I ordered.

Does anyone know of another DIY kit I can order that has a little better quality control?

Edit: And nothing in the build PDF shows any parts that look like picture Kossel Kit8. Here is a link to my onedrive with the pictures. [1drv.ms]

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2015 03:27PM by davidf01.

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davidf01
I just received my kit and I'm extremely disappointed. Apparently they still cant pack and ship this product correctly. I have no metal corners, I have no carbon fiber rods, no packing list so I have no idea what should be in the box or not. The shipping label says "Rev A" and I ordered Rev B. I think somebody mixed the parts for the kossel and the I3. Some of the packages are not labeled at all. Here are some pictures of what was packed. Needless to say I'm a bit pissed off, I was going to build it this weekend but that's not going to happen now. I don't understand how this can still be happening after all this time. I'm thinking I should just return the whole kit because I cant trust that anything in this kit is correct. I emailed them and left a message but they don't do support on the weekends so I guess i'm SOL till Monday. And I also did not receive the roll of filament I ordered.

Does anyone know of another DIY kit I can order that has a little better quality control?

Edit: And nothing in the build PDF shows any parts that look like picture Kossel Kit8. Here is a link to my onedrive with the pictures. [1drv.ms]

Thats not a Kossel kit you got its an i3. definitely should make it right. Maybe theyll let you keep the i3 to?

Thanks cman8, That confirms what I was thinking but since I don't know what should be in a kossel kit I couldn't tell for sure. I'm so angry at this point I'm not sure I want anything to do with Folger
other then a refund. Can I use any of these parts on the kossel if I still want it?

On a side note anyone else getting a 502 bad gateway for these forms today?

Other than the stepper motors and PS and such I dont think much else is usable as its shorter I think. Folger definitely gets things wrong and CS although slow, they have always made it right. If your patient they will help you. But I know they have had some screw ups before with me but nothing this significant, but they have always made right by it.

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davidf01

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hideehoo
Got my Rev B kit today, ordered last Sunday (8/16). Everything was well packed, no missing parts. Printed parts look OK and the corners are using M4x10mm bolts and T-Nuts (I think someone mentioned they got M3 earlier in this thread). There's still the angle issue with the metal corners, but it's not hard to get everything fitted together loosely and then tighten them down. So far I'm still very happy for the price paid. Now to get it completely built and printing...

flic.kr

hideehoo,

I should be getting my kit soon also. Whats the angle issue with the metal corners you talked about?

The problem is clearly shown in the photo you quoted - they are made with an incorrect angle and don't assemble without being forced (the gap shown is not because things are loose - that's the error . . .).

- Tim

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2015 12:27AM by tadawson.

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tadawson

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davidf01

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hideehoo
Got my Rev B kit today, ordered last Sunday (8/16). Everything was well packed, no missing parts. Printed parts look OK and the corners are using M4x10mm bolts and T-Nuts (I think someone mentioned they got M3 earlier in this thread). There's still the angle issue with the metal corners, but it's not hard to get everything fitted together loosely and then tighten them down. So far I'm still very happy for the price paid. Now to get it completely built and printing...

flic.kr

hideehoo,

I should be getting my kit soon also. Whats the angle issue with the metal corners you talked about?

The problem is clearly shown in the photo you quoted - they are made with an incorrect angle and don't assemble without being forced (the gap shown is not because things are loose - that's the error . . .).

- Tim

Oh gezz,, I thought that gap was because it was loose. So by force do you mean you just have to crank the bolt down harder or bend the rod a little? I may not have to worry about it anyway since I may not keep the order I placed.

Thanks for the reply though.

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davidf01

Quote
hideehoo
Got my Rev B kit today, ordered last Sunday (8/16). Everything was well packed, no missing parts. Printed parts look OK and the corners are using M4x10mm bolts and T-Nuts (I think someone mentioned they got M3 earlier in this thread). There's still the angle issue with the metal corners, but it's not hard to get everything fitted together loosely and then tighten them down. So far I'm still very happy for the price paid. Now to get it completely built and printing...

flic.kr

hideehoo,

I should be getting my kit soon also. Whats the angle issue with the metal corners you talked about?

If I had to deal with a gap like that I would put a ratchet strap or something similar around it an tighten until there was no gaps before tightening the last screws.
I have an unassembled rev A (waiting for replacement parts) and have other problems ahead of me I guess.

How parallel must the arms be? Or rather, what is a reasonable tolerance for the horizontal distance between the ram's balljoints. The parts in my kit, effector and carriages, are within 0.4 mm.

Cheers!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2015 03:45AM by SlowFoot.

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SlowFoot
How parallel must the arms be? Or rather, what is a reasonable tolerance for the horizontal distance between the ram's balljoints. The parts in my kit, effector and carriages, are within 0.4 mm.

Cheers!

Differences in the spacing between bearings at either end will cause the effector to tilt as it translates in the XY plane. If the tilt is small then it may not affect your prints significantly, apart from introducing a size error in the XY plane. However, if you have a Z probe separate from the nozzle, then any varying tilt will cause the Z probe trigger height relative to the nozzle to vary with Z position, making calibration difficult.

You may be able to improve the accuracy either by very gentle filing of the surfaces that the bearings sit on to reduce the spacing, or by putting a washer under some of the bearings to increase the spacing as I did on my Kossel. The M3 washers I am using are 0.55mm thick.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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dc42

Quote
SlowFoot
How parallel must the arms be? Or rather, what is a reasonable tolerance for the horizontal distance between the ram's balljoints. The parts in my kit, effector and carriages, are within 0.4 mm.

Cheers!

Differences in the spacing between bearings at either end will cause the effector to tilt as it translates in the XY plane. If the tilt is small then it may not affect your prints significantly, apart from introducing a size error in the XY plane. However, if you have a Z probe separate from the nozzle, then any varying tilt will cause the Z probe trigger height relative to the nozzle to vary with Z position, making calibration difficult.

You may be able to improve the accuracy either by very gentle filing of the surfaces that the bearings sit on to reduce the spacing, or by putting a washer under some of the bearings to increase the spacing as I did on my Kossel. The M3 washers I am using are 0.55mm thick.

Thanks!
I have access to a workshop so I can machine the parts and/or make custom shims. But I still need an idea of what a reasonable tolerance is. At what level will the error drown in the general noise?

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SlowFoot
Thanks!
I have access to a workshop so I can machine the parts and/or make custom shims. But I still need an idea of what a reasonable tolerance is. At what level will the error drown in the general noise?

That's a very good question. I haven't done a mathematical analysis of the effects of different bearing spacings at either end of a pair of diagonal rods, or of the effects of the two rods in a pair having slightly different lengths. I have not seen any such analysis either. Maybe I'll do one when I have more time. All I know is that my effector does tilt slightly, and I compensate for the resulting probe height errors in the calibration macro file. Reducing the bearing spacing difference from 0.35mm to 0.1mm didn't help, so the problem must lie elsewhere in my build.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Hi

I was wondring if anyone could help me with a print size problem I am having. If I down load an STL file say like from Thingiverse and print it the print comes out to small but the if I go
into Object Placement in Repetier Host and scale it up 1.1 and then slice and print it comes out the right size. what would ihave to change so I don't have to re-scale the size before
I print?