Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

Hey guys,

I just finished uploading this thing to thingiverse: [www.thingiverse.com]

Just wanted to share with you, as this did really increase the accuracy, with which dc42's calculator could do it's job for me. Before, my otherwise nearly perfectly flat glass bed was bend by the imperfect heated bed. With the clamping force on the edge of the glass, everything went from okay to hunkey-dorey. Just to give a fair impression: I stopped using bed correction.

Give it a try and let me know what you think.

Hi all,

Just going through building my Folger Tech Kossel 2020 Rev B kit. After realising that I was using the Rev A Build Manual (this thread on page 1) (whoops) but then finding the Rev B Build Manual on the Folger Tech website, I'm getting right into the build now . Have all the frame together but just needs slight adjustments to make it true etc, I am up to cutting the CF rods to length. I've measured the plastic traxxas style Heim joints at 24.48mm to the centre, what's the overall length from C to C of the heims that these rods need to be to get the 210mmX & Y axis and the 310mmZ axis as what's stated as the described final print area that the Folger Tech Kossel 2020 page states the build area is? The manual states 240mm C to C but I'm reading on here that people are only getting a 150-180mm X and Y not 210mm? Some of the parts I want to print are ~180-200mm X and Y so just checking/confirming what the right length is to get the build volume/area? Some say 250mm C to C? So not really sure?

Sorry if I've missed the post which explains this measurement clearly! I have gone through all the 107 pages on this thread but could have missed it... Just don't want to cut them too short, even though I will probably end up upgrading the Heim rod ends to something with less slop (not that there is much at all in the supplied ones, but you can notice a tiny amount. Anyone using turnbuckles on that note?) Having fun either way

Thanks in advance for any help and info!

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docpayce
I finished magnet-rodding my Kossel: [www.thingiverse.com]
Results are, to say the least, GREAT. Print quality went up quite a bit (mainly due to zero backlash). And the best part: Whereas I could only use a radius of 60 mm ... 70 mm before, I can now easily use the full radius of 100 mm without any issues. Bed correction is still necessary, but has to do way less work than before (~ +/- 120 µm). I can fully recommend doing this mod. Costs are reasonable (~ 35 bucks) and results are reeeally nice.
My rod length is ~ 280 mm, which results in my printing height to be reduced to usable 195 mm ("usable": I can still print the full 200 mm diameter at 195 mm height). Maybe I will get a second set of rods (~ 250 mm) for smaller footprint but higher prints. Changing the rods is eeeeasy.

First, I have to say I'm a complete newby, here. I ordered my first printer last week - Folger Kossel 2020 - and should get it in a couple of days. This mod looks like a great idea though and I started looking for the supplies needed already

HOWEVER, I have a question (actually a couple, but let's just start with one)... Given the freedom of placement of the ball on the magnet, it seems like the geometry of the arm (placement) could be well off. Even if you started by manually positioning the ball ends centrally on each magnet, they could move randomly over the duration of a print.

As I said, I'm a newby. Is this not a problem, or am I missing something?

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meq123

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docpayce
I finished magnet-rodding my Kossel: [www.thingiverse.com]
Results are, to say the least, GREAT. Print quality went up quite a bit (mainly due to zero backlash). And the best part: Whereas I could only use a radius of 60 mm ... 70 mm before, I can now easily use the full radius of 100 mm without any issues. Bed correction is still necessary, but has to do way less work than before (~ +/- 120 µm). I can fully recommend doing this mod. Costs are reasonable (~ 35 bucks) and results are reeeally nice.
My rod length is ~ 280 mm, which results in my printing height to be reduced to usable 195 mm ("usable": I can still print the full 200 mm diameter at 195 mm height). Maybe I will get a second set of rods (~ 250 mm) for smaller footprint but higher prints. Changing the rods is eeeeasy.

First, I have to say I'm a complete newby, here. I ordered my first printer last week - Folger Kossel 2020 - and should get it in a couple of days. This mod looks like a great idea though and I started looking for the supplies needed already

HOWEVER, I have a question (actually a couple, but let's just start with one)... Given the freedom of placement of the ball on the magnet, it seems like the geometry of the arm (placement) could be well off. Even if you started by manually positioning the ball ends centrally on each magnet, they could move randomly over the duration of a print.

As I said, I'm a newby. Is this not a problem, or am I missing something?

Welcome to the forum meq123! I'm new here too and am also in the middle of building the FT Kossel kit, there is heaps of great info on here!

That thingyverse mag mod looks like it'll work well! Looking into it! It looks as though the magnets a Rare Earth N35-52 cup magnets that a shaped to the ball bearings, but he mentions they are just cylindrical? If they are cupped it shouldn't move from the cup at all and just magnetically lock into place allowing free movement of the arms? If they are just cylinders (which they don't look like at all given the second picture on the post) they could move a little from the centre of the pole axis as the printer head moves around but if N52's are used they shouldn't move from the centre axis due to the amount of force the N52's have. But I reckon they are either cupped magnets OR steel cups that suit the balls placed over the magnets that the ball joints rotate in allowing no backlash movement in the joints. Will have to lurbicate the joint with a thin wax though if they are cups so they move freely and don't bind together from corrosion in humidity etc. Will be looking further into that one!

Hopefully people here that know/have done the mod with more knowledge on the design can chime in.

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Suitable
Hi all,

Just going through building my Folger Tech Kossel 2020 Rev B kit. After realising that I was using the Rev A Build Manual (this thread on page 1) (whoops) but then finding the Rev B Build Manual on the Folger Tech website, I'm getting right into the build now . Have all the frame together but just needs slight adjustments to make it true etc, I am up to cutting the CF rods to length. I've measured the plastic traxxas style Heim joints at 24.48mm to the centre, what's the overall length from C to C of the heims that these rods need to be to get the 210mmX & Y axis and the 310mmZ axis as what's stated as the described final print area that the Folger Tech Kossel 2020 page states the build area is? The manual states 240mm C to C but I'm reading on here that people are only getting a 150-180mm X and Y not 210mm? Some of the parts I want to print are ~180-200mm X and Y so just checking/confirming what the right length is to get the build volume/area? Some say 250mm C to C? So not really sure?

Sorry if I've missed the post which explains this measurement clearly! I have gone through all the 107 pages on this thread but could have missed it... Just don't want to cut them too short, even though I will probably end up upgrading the Heim rod ends to something with less slop (not that there is much at all in the supplied ones, but you can notice a tiny amount. Anyone using turnbuckles on that note?) Having fun either way

Thanks in advance for any help and info!

In order for the scaling to be correct, the center to center distance of the arms should be 240mm. As you increase the length of the arms your prints will come out small and you will have to scale up as you decrease the length of the arms, the prints will come out large and you will have to scale down. You can make the arms as long as you want, it just screws up the prints.

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Legrand
In order for the scaling to be correct, the center to center distance of the arms should be 240mm. As you increase the length of the arms your prints will come out small and you will have to scale up as you decrease the length of the arms, the prints will come out large and you will have to scale down. You can make the arms as long as you want, it just screws up the prints.

Thanks for the info Legrand! So just to confirm, using 240mm c to c will give me the final print volume of 210mmX/Y and a 310mm Z? I guess putting the carriages on the system 20 and going round with a ruler with the extruder mount will tell me definitely. Thanks for the help and info!

EDIT: Yep, just checked and 240mm seems perfect. Thanks again for confirming

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2016 09:25AM by Suitable.

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Legrand
In order for the scaling to be correct, the center to center distance of the arms should be 240mm. As you increase the length of the arms your prints will come out small and you will have to scale up as you decrease the length of the arms, the prints will come out large and you will have to scale down. You can make the arms as long as you want, it just screws up the prints.

You are wrong. Please don't give an advice if you don't understand delta's basics.
There is absolutely no link between diagonal rod length and dimensional accuracy. You can make your rods any length - it will affect the size of print area (volume), resolution, but not dimensional accuracy. Just set real diagonal rod length in the firmware and fine tune it measuring your prints.

---

My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

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Suitable

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Legrand
In order for the scaling to be correct, the center to center distance of the arms should be 240mm. As you increase the length of the arms your prints will come out small and you will have to scale up as you decrease the length of the arms, the prints will come out large and you will have to scale down. You can make the arms as long as you want, it just screws up the prints.

Thanks for the info Legrand! So just to confirm, using 240mm c to c will give me the final print volume of 210mmX/Y and a 310mm Z? I guess putting the carriages on the system 20 and going round with a ruler with the extruder mount will tell me definitely. Thanks for the help and info!

EDIT: Yep, just checked and 240mm seems perfect. Thanks again for confirming

Aggh. The Rev B manual that *I* just downloaded says 230mm for bolt-hole to bolt-hole. Which is correct?? (It would be REALLY nice if they put a version number in their manuals, too!)

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paul_delta

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Legrand
In order for the scaling to be correct, the center to center distance of the arms should be 240mm. As you increase the length of the arms your prints will come out small and you will have to scale up as you decrease the length of the arms, the prints will come out large and you will have to scale down. You can make the arms as long as you want, it just screws up the prints.

You are wrong. Please don't give an advice if you don't understand delta's basics.
There is absolutely no link between diagonal rod length and dimensional accuracy. You can make your rods any length - it will affect the size of print area (volume), resolution, but not dimensional accuracy. Just set real diagonal rod length in the firmware and fine tune it measuring your prints.

I have built four of these units and two of them have had really bad rod length errors, one was because I made the rods too short based on FT's old poorly documented info, and the other was because I custom made a larger delta with a 12" build plate and made the rods too long. Now you can argue with me about some sort of specific semantics about how the length doesn't affect anything, but the absolutely only way I was able to have these things to travel flat to the build surface and print properly after messing with the parameters for ages was to scale the short armed one by 99% and scale the long armed one by 106%. As soon as I made new arms that were the correct length, everything came into line at 100% scale.

This calibration article seems to support my real world "misunderstandings": Calibration of Delta 3D Printers

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meq123
Aggh. The Rev B manual that *I* just downloaded says 230mm for bolt-hole to bolt-hole. Which is correct?? (It would be REALLY nice if they put a version number in their manuals, too!)

My rods are still 230mm. The max. print diameter is only 158mm, that's why they changed recommended length to 240mm - to use the table more effectively.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2016 10:07AM by paul_delta.

---

My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

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Legrand

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paul_delta

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Legrand
In order for the scaling to be correct, the center to center distance of the arms should be 240mm. As you increase the length of the arms your prints will come out small and you will have to scale up as you decrease the length of the arms, the prints will come out large and you will have to scale down. You can make the arms as long as you want, it just screws up the prints.

You are wrong. Please don't give an advice if you don't understand delta's basics.
There is absolutely no link between diagonal rod length and dimensional accuracy. You can make your rods any length - it will affect the size of print area (volume), resolution, but not dimensional accuracy. Just set real diagonal rod length in the firmware and fine tune it measuring your prints.

I have built four of these units and two of them have had really bad rod length errors, one was because I made the rods too short based on FT's old poorly documented info, and the other was because I custom made a larger delta with a 12" build plate and made the rods too long. Now you can argue with me about some sort of specific semantics about how the length doesn't affect anything, but the absolutely only way I was able to have these things to travel flat to the build surface and print properly after messing with the parameters for ages was to scale the short armed one by 99% and scale the long armed one by 106%. As soon as I made new arms that were the correct length, everything came into line at 100% scale.

This calibration article seems to support my real world "misunderstandings": Calibration of Delta 3D Printers

If the rod lengths you configure in firmware are not the actual lengths of the rods on your printer, measured between the bearing centres, then you are setting inaccurate rod lengths to correct for a scaling error caused by something else, e.g. the bearing spacings on your carriages are not quite the same as the bearing spacings on your effector. This correction isn't perfect. If you try printing a square of the maximum size that will fit on your bed, you may find that the sides are slightly convex or concave instead of being straight. If you try printing several smaller squares or circles of equal sizes at different points on the bed, you may find that the sizes vary with position.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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paul_delta

My rods are still 230mm. The max. print diameter is only 158mm, that's why they changed recommended length to 240mm - to use the table more effectively.

Thanks to all for all the responses. I appreciate the help.

I just found (what I assume is) a later manual to download. That has the 240mm length specified and implies they have now started to ship pre-made rods - though the manual has an appendix to build the rods if you don't get pre-made ones. Heh!

Wow, did they finally update their manual? It was (SO) about time.

I just checked it out and it really looks good now. They did a much better job. They EVEN included a proper electronics guide this time around. *Applause*

For the rod length: I am using 275 mm rod length right now to maximize for x/y build surface (I can use the full 210 mm diameter without problems). And I do not have any issues with scaling / deformation - in accordance to what dc42 wrote. If you optimize for a flat bed and your rod length deviates from the real rod length due to this (e.g. using dc42's calculator) - you have a problem with either your bed not being flat or some other geometry problem.

@meq123 & Suitable: With 240 mm rod length you will be able to use a good 160 mm diameter of your bed easily and ~ 230 ... 240 mm height. If you want more diameter, increase the rod length accordingly (e.g. 255 mm rod length will give *approximately* 180 mm diamter but 215 mm height, 270 mm rod length for 200 mm diameter and 200 mm height).

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docpayce
Wow, did they finally update their manual? It was (SO) about time.

I just checked it out and it really looks good now. They did a much better job. They EVEN included a proper electronics guide this time around. *Applause*

For the rod length: I am using 275 mm rod length right now to maximize for x/y build surface (I can use the full 210 mm diameter without problems). And I do not have any issues with scaling / deformation - in accordance to what dc42 wrote. If you optimize for a flat bed and your rod length deviates from the real rod length due to this (e.g. using dc42's calculator) - you have a problem with either your bed not being flat or some other geometry problem.

@meq123 & Suitable: With 240 mm rod length you will be able to use a good 160 mm diameter of your bed easily and ~ 230 ... 240 mm height. If you want more diameter, increase the rod length accordingly (e.g. 255 mm rod length will give *approximately* 180 mm diamter but 215 mm height, 270 mm rod length for 200 mm diameter and 200 mm height).

Thanks for the rod advice

As for the manual, it does seem more complete. However, there's nothing in there about adjusting the Pololu driver voltages now. I assume this still needs to be done, right? The old manual said .35V for the X/Y/Z steppers and .55V for the extruder.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2016 09:28PM by meq123.

[forums.reprap.org]



And just in general, I had the chance to compare generic (Traxxas end) rods to magnet rods, as I had to reprint some broken part. Check it out:
[cdn.thingiverse.com]
[cdn.thingiverse.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2016 08:56AM by docpayce.

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docpayce
And just in general, I had the chance to compare generic (Traxxas end) rods to magnet rods, as I had to reprint some broken part. Check it out:
[cdn.thingiverse.com]
[cdn.thingiverse.com]

Wow! That's a huge difference. What magnet rod setup/design was that?

Looks nice. Do you lubricate magnet joints? Any experience printing at 100mm/s?

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docpayce
And just in general, I had the chance to compare generic (Traxxas end) rods to magnet rods, as I had to reprint some broken part. Check it out:
[cdn.thingiverse.com]
[cdn.thingiverse.com]

---

My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

@meq123: My own. [www.thingiverse.com] with 10 mm OD, 4 mm ID magnets, 5 mm height and 6 mm OD, 4mm ID carbon rods. 285 mm total rod length (a bit too much imho), equals 275 mm in firmware with the 10 mm steel balls on top.

@paul_delta: YES, totally. I ran into quite huge problems when not lubricating the joints with a generous blob of heavy duty oil. Without lubrication, I had the problem that the steel ball would not pivot in the bore hole of the magnet, but wander from side to side, ruining some prints. I did not print at 100 mm/s yet (the picture is a 70 mm/s print), but I don't think the speed would be a problem for the magnets (my travel speed is 150 mm/s). The extruder might start to run into limitations (100 mm/s x 0.25 mm layer height x 0.4 mm = 10 mm³/s). But overall, should be okay. Will give it a try, when I have some non-critical print to do.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2016 07:14PM by docpayce.

If you feel brave, copy/paste into Repetier and give it a go:

G28
G1 Z100 F6000
G91
M84
G4 P2000
G1 Z7.34 F440.4
G1 Z8.24 F494.4
G1 Z6.54 F392.4
G1 Z3.27 F196.2
G1 Z9.8 F294
M84
G90
G4 P2000
G28
M84

I got my crazy day, sorry.

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paul_delta
Any experience printing at 100mm/s?

Tried it out today, printing at 120 mm/s (that is all interior stuff, exterior perimeter is printed at 80 mm/s). Worked with minor issues: The slightest rounding of the edges is visible - as expected. Could solve that with higher acceleration/jerk (I run only run at 2000 mm/s² to reduce echoing effects to non-visible), but then echoing would be increased. Also, the print had to slow down at some rounded corners, as the buffer ran dry, and thus produced slight blobs. Again, could solve that with a less detailed .stl file. Or a 32 bit processor (... if those just were not so expensive...).

The lower part is 70 mm/s, the upper part 120 mm/s (12 mm³/s! (oO) ):
[imgur.com]

Looks very good, so all issues are not related to magnet joints. Thanks for sharing.

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docpayce

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paul_delta
Any experience printing at 100mm/s?

Tried it out today, printing at 120 mm/s (that is all interior stuff, exterior perimeter is printed at 80 mm/s). Worked with minor issues: The slightest rounding of the edges is visible - as expected. Could solve that with higher acceleration/jerk (I run only run at 2000 mm/s² to reduce echoing effects to non-visible), but then echoing would be increased. Also, the print had to slow down at some rounded corners, as the buffer ran dry, and thus produced slight blobs. Again, could solve that with a less detailed .stl file. Or a 32 bit processor (... if those just were not so expensive...).

The lower part is 70 mm/s, the upper part 120 mm/s (12 mm³/s! (oO) ):
[imgur.com]

---

My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

Thanks heaps for all this info! I cut the arms to 181.2mm which gave me a centre to centre of the Traxxis heims of 240mm exactly as per the manual and doing some measurements with the cariges on, it should print to ~205mm X/Y square (so I should get a 180mm OD circle shape all good) and a print height for about ~290-300mm depending on the stops. The manual states 240mm c to c gives you a 210mm X/Y square and 310mm Z so if I am measuring right, it should be ok.. Hopefully ha ha! Has anyone with 240mm arms tried the largest circle they cam do? Also, are you using linear bearings or the printed wheel bearing carriges as I believe there is a difference in length between the two (with the linear ones needing to be longer to suit?)? If they are too short I'll just make my "first" real print on the list, (after the filament spool mounts though!), the rod ends etc for magnetic ball joints and do the mod with longer arms to suit. Great printed design there too by the way!

Also, is anyone using turnbuckle style rods at all? They'll work with magnets as well as real SS heims etc. so mainly just wondering if the added weight would have any dramas of the 7075-T6 or 6061-T6 (if 7075-T6 is too hard to get) turnbuckles with the small steppers and it's whole gearing? Shouldn't be too much extra weight though.

Have you tried lanolin in the magnet joints instead of grease or oils? As its a wax it'll leave a thin dry film in the joint which won't pick up dust as long as it's allowed to dry properly before using them.

Also, what are people using for the plug connections in humid locations? Is dielectric grease too thick if only lightly brushed over the connector pins etc, or would it be better to use the spray type as its thinned down and brush it on also etc? LED down light light bulbs here last about a month max if you don't dielectric grease the connector pins at the very least! Not to mention the salt air too... Just don't want to cook the terminal joints on the tiny Nema17 steppers etc.

Finally, is the stock hotend all good with ABS at .55V? or does it need to be set higher, say +~.05-.1V to feed ABS better? Most of my early prints will be pretty low in height so I should be ok for a while with ABS until i sort an encloser of sorts out (seal off the electronics to the bed etc with a thin plate of aluminium so i can run fans under the bed without causing problems etc. well thats what im thinking, the extra aluminium plate would act as a heatsink aswell then too, maybe ha ha...).

I think thats it for now! Ive just got the extruder together and on, about to stant the base and electronics Thanks heaps all for all the great help and awesome info!

Keen to get printing!!!

Got mine 3/4 of the way done too now - all the mechanical parts done, apart from the electronics mounting & wiring. Slightly disappointed in a way that the kit I got still came with a printed effector plate, rather than the fancy aluminum one they show in the instructions.

Also the rods were DIY and not pre-made as they had stated. On the other hand, that let me max out the lengths of the carbon rods to 220mm (270 incl ends) so I can get the largest print width possible .

So a quick question, the instructions say to leave about 20mm of the vertical 2020s sticking out of the top corners. Anyone know why that is? I'd prefer to move the top triangle up to the top of the verticals to give me the greatest print height possible, but I assume they have a reason for that instruction(?).

Thanks, all.

Nice work I'm guessing that's because the 2020 lengths are not all the same length (unless you ground or cut them back even to eachother, I had to shave ~0.5mm-1mm off most the 300mm lengths to get them to 300mm exactly, I never checked the long ones though as you can leave them poking out the top a bit to square them up properly), but I am only guessing with that instruction so far. I didn't get a aluminium effector plate either, just printed parts apart from the 9 corner pieces. Do they have aluminium ones? I heard they used to be injection moulded parts instead of printed, but they were able to bring the price down with printed parts instead of moulded without sacrificing accuracy AFAIK which is why they just went with printed? Thinking about it though, you wouldn't want an aluminium effector/extruder plate as it would soak up the heat from the hot end and send the heat to the ball joints/heims/other plastic parts (places of least resistance and up) unless the whole lot was aluminium and SS heims for the linkages, heat also kills neodymium and other magnets magnetism too. Injection moulded would be ideal or just print finer parts when it's up and running and finely tuned or with another printer. Laser cut aluminium parts instead of the acrylics would be nicer too. It shouldn't really matter that much though unless there is slop in the heims and other bearings/parts etc and the rods are all the same length as the Bowden heads tip should still be perpendicular to the bed at all times, as long as it's a snug fit. But I ain't no expert that's for sure!

I'm keen to find out if those using the longer arms and or shorter ones other than 240mm are the ones with the linear bearings and not the wheel bearing carriages as that will make a difference in rod lengths to get the print area.

Have you checked your lengths with the complete head and arms on the carriages? Also what manual shows an aluminium effector plate? Thanks for the info and tips!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2016 08:11PM by Suitable.

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Suitable
Nice work I'm guessing that's because the 2020 lengths are not all the same length (unless you ground or cut them back even to eachother, I had to shave ~0.5mm-1mm off most the 300mm lengths to get them to 300mm exactly, I never checked the long ones though as you can leave them poking out the top a bit to square them up properly)

Yeah, I had a couple of the 300's that were too long by about the same amount, and a couple that were too short too. I also shaved the long ones to 300mm, and used the short ones for the bottom row of the base (with small gaps at each corner angle piece). However the long ones were all exactly the same length at 700mm. Even if they weren't, 20mm poking out is way too much to be needed to even them up.

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but I am only guessing with that instruction so far. I didn't get a aluminium effector plate either, just printed parts apart from the 9 corner pieces. Do they have aluminium ones? [...] Also what manual shows an aluminium effector plate?

The new "User Guide" on the google drive linked from the Folger Tech Kossel product page. I.e.: [drive.google.com]

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Have you checked your lengths with the complete head and arms on the carriages?

Not sure why that matters? My arms, from center pivot point to center pivot point, measure 270mm currently. If that length doesn't work out, I can trim them down and reglue later. Or just go to docpayce's magnetic ones (which I probably will do later). The latter is also why I don't care too much about the lack of a metal effector plate

UPDATE: Hah! I think I just answered my own question. I was just reading the older RevB build manual from the "Older Guides and Files" folder on the google drive above (I hadn't looked at that version before). Under the belt installation section it says "Secure belt to carriage by creating a loop in the belt and holding the teeth side together with a ziptie. Leave the belts slightly loose. [...] Next we are going to loosen the three bolts on the ‘UPPER ASSEMBLY’ of our printer that holds our top frame in place. We are then going to use that to tension the belts manually." So THAT's why they want to leave some leeway at the tops.

The new manual says "Once the belt is free of any slack, loop the free end of the belt around the upper square mounting stub in the plastic belt holder, making sure it remains tight throughout the process." and then nothing about moving the top frame at all (even though it still says "The vertical 2020 beams should protrude out the top around 20mm"). Doh!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2016 10:21PM by meq123.

Can't see an aluminium effector plate in that manual? Are you talking about the aluminium extruder mount on the 5.3kgcm stepper? Gets bolted to the acrylic plate amd at the top of the frame? Can you post a pic please?

Also, that's he only revB manual I have found, where is this newer version you talk of or older version (not the one on page 1 here)? The one you linked is the one I am using, thee doesn't seem to be any others apart from those two?

The arm lengths I was talking about the differences between the linear bearing rails compared to the printed carries and guide wheels, there would be a difference in length for those arms hence the question of checking the actual print area with the hot end and carries all connected to the main frame. Obviously longer arms will still allow the max print XY but lower the Z. Doesn't matter too much as they are the first mod on the list to be done. With a metal efector plate it will transfer heat to the magnets so I'm not sure what to do there still, maybe the fans wil be sufficient enough to make it negligible. Not sure if it's able to print CF reinforced filaments due to the hot end but that may be a better option in the long run to make the magnet arm setup? Is it possible to get this hot end up to 275 deg C without frying the PCB's and hot end etc? Or is 230 deg C the absolute max? Can a different hot end be used instead eventually that can handle the higher heats that the premium filaments need?

That makes more sense regarding the belt tensioning with the frame! Not sure what those springs will do and how they will make a difference? I'm thinking making new belt mounts/tensioners eventually either way. There are some much better designs that will be able to be mounted simply and allow proper torque settings per belt, stepper resistance will also tell the tensions too so it'll be able to get them perfect easily. The manual is pretty vague still! Bit of self engineering/ingenuity and it should be fine...

What's the keflon tape for? Doesn't mention it in the steps either but lists that it's needed in the hot end build up section? But would have thought that would be used for the pcb's etc?

Thanks for he help and info! The manuals are not too clear, plus some of the screws need to be cut to fit correctly, especially the 4 x M3x25 bolts for the hot end mount to the effector plate and prope holder, they need to be 20mm or they bind with the hot ends cooling fins. The arm lengths need a more in depth description in the manual, ie "240mm c to c to get the advertised 210mm XY x 310mm Z print volume" that is listed in the sale description. Would be handier to know from the get go! But they will be one of the first things to be changed anyway... It's a fun build either way at the end of the day! Sure beats buying a premade RTR one!

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matthew900
Hi, I've haven't used my printer in about 6 months and tried to get it working again this week. I had upgraded to windows 10 since I last used it so I updated the Arduino softare and printrun. Now I can not get the printer to work. When I try to load the firmware with Arduino I'm getting the following error message:

avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_getsync(): timeout communicating with programmer

I thought maybe it was an issue with the updated Arduino software but I also can not get printrun to connect to the board either. Anyone encountered this error or have any ideas? Thanks!

I got the new Arduino and I uploaded the firmware the first time with no issues. Then after that then when I made some changes to my firmware and tried to upload it again I started getting the same errors. Anyone have any idea what can be causing this? I've tried multiple computers with different operating systems. I can get printrun to connect to the printer, I just can't get the firmware to update.

I'm so frustrated that I'm ready to just throw this thing in the trash

Quote
Suitable
Can't see an aluminium effector plate in that manual? Are you talking about the aluminium extruder mount on the 5.3kgcm stepper? Gets bolted to the acrylic plate amd at the top of the frame? Can you post a pic please?

Also, that's he only revB manual I have found, where is this newer version you talk of or older version (not the one on page 1 here)? The one you linked is the one I am using, thee doesn't seem to be any others apart from those two?

The arm lengths I was talking about the differences between the linear bearing rails compared to the printed carries and guide wheels, there would be a difference in length for those arms hence the question of checking the actual print area with the hot end and carries all connected to the main frame. Obviously longer arms will still allow the max print XY but lower the Z. Doesn't matter too much as they are the first mod on the list to be done. With a metal efector plate it will transfer heat to the magnets so I'm not sure what to do there still, maybe the fans wil be sufficient enough to make it negligible. Not sure if it's able to print CF reinforced filaments due to the hot end but that may be a better option in the long run to make the magnet arm setup? Is it possible to get this hot end up to 275 deg C without frying the PCB's and hot end etc? Or is 230 deg C the absolute max? Can a different hot end be used instead eventually that can handle the higher heats that the premium filaments need?

That makes more sense regarding the belt tensioning with the frame! Not sure what those springs will do and how they will make a difference? I'm thinking making new belt mounts/tensioners eventually either way. There are some much better designs that will be able to be mounted simply and allow proper torque settings per belt, stepper resistance will also tell the tensions too so it'll be able to get them perfect easily. The manual is pretty vague still! Bit of self engineering/ingenuity and it should be fine...

What's the keflon tape for? Doesn't mention it in the steps either but lists that it's needed in the hot end build up section? But would have thought that would be used for the pcb's etc?

Thanks for he help and info! The manuals are not too clear, plus some of the screws need to be cut to fit correctly, especially the 4 x M3x25 bolts for the hot end mount to the effector plate and prope holder, they need to be 20mm or they bind with the hot ends cooling fins. The arm lengths need a more in depth description in the manual, ie "240mm c to c to get the advertised 210mm XY x 310mm Z print volume" that is listed in the sale description. Would be handier to know from the get go! But they will be one of the first things to be changed anyway... It's a fun build either way at the end of the day! Sure beats buying a premade RTR one!

I don't think you're following the same RevB manual as I am then

See the "User Guide" (AKA Build Manual) here: [drive.google.com] and look at the photos on p.28 to see the metal effector plate. That page also says to use M3x16 screws for the plate-probe-hotend mount. That's what I used and they just fit.

The Kapton tape was used in two places in the manual - thermistor to hot plate (I reused the packing tape) and to insulate the resistors for the inductive probe (I used heatshrink). So, yes, I still also have an unused roll

The other difference in that new manual is the electronics. There it talks about supplying an MKS board (combined Arduino and RAMPS) whereas I still received the two separate boards, so the mounting of the board section there was useless. I've been using both versions of the RevB manual AND the RevA all in parallel - flicking back and forth at each section. I've found there are errors in each!

PLEASE don't use the wiring diagram in the older RevB manual for the Inductive sensor wiring. IT IS WRONG! The newer one has it correct (though not very clear). The clearest diagram I found was the following (just divide the resistor values by 10 for the Folgertech kit):

Sweet! Yeah that's a whole other build manual! 3 in total! Yeah I see what you mean with the Al effector plate... There is a few different upgrades in that kits listed build manual compared to the kit I received! Pre cut/made arms, Al effector plate, MKS board, a better hot plate/heat bed (by looking at it, has more power thus more/stable heat etc) and a few more! :/ Confused much!?! That MKS board looks a hell of a lot neater too! See how the other parts go on this kit. The fan mount on the sensor printed bracket was snapped off mine, was connected by a thin fur of printed plastic so looked like it was a cold joint in the print (?), have glued it back on with some of the left over superglue for now.. See how it holds up... The screws list are also different in that build manual as well. Have had to cut a few ones that are too long and use longer ones where shorter ones are said to be used etc. See how it all goes at the end! Onto finishing all the electrics tomorrow Yeah I used heat shrink as well for the resistors etc, looks a lot neater than tape. You would be almost up and running by now yeah? Keen to see how yours ends up and how your first prints go! Too keen

Thanks for all the info!

Quote
matthew900

Quote
matthew900
Hi, I've haven't used my printer in about 6 months and tried to get it working again this week. I had upgraded to windows 10 since I last used it so I updated the Arduino softare and printrun. Now I can not get the printer to work. When I try to load the firmware with Arduino I'm getting the following error message:

avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_getsync(): timeout communicating with programmer

I thought maybe it was an issue with the updated Arduino software but I also can not get printrun to connect to the board either. Anyone encountered this error or have any ideas? Thanks!

I got the new Arduino and I uploaded the firmware the first time with no issues. Then after that then when I made some changes to my firmware and tried to upload it again I started getting the same errors. Anyone have any idea what can be causing this? I've tried multiple computers with different operating systems. I can get printrun to connect to the printer, I just can't get the firmware to update.

I'm so frustrated that I'm ready to just throw this thing in the trash

Hi Matt,

Just been thinking about your issue with the printer. Have you checked all the connections for corrosion and the PCB's circuitry with a multimeter? Sounds like there might be either corrosion or dust particles causing a short on one or many of the connections and or electronics on the PCB's. Have you tried giving everything a clear with clean compressed air and isopropyl alcohol? I'm betting it would be one of the above or multiple. Also check that the PSU is working correctly as part of it. Hope that fixes it! If you decide to throw it though, please through it all the way to Qld Australia! I'll take it ha ha

Keep us posted. Keen to find out the results as to what it is/was.

Steve

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2016 09:53PM by Suitable.