Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

What can I expect as far as print speed? I can get decent prints by running at around 20mm/s but that seems very slow. The design goal was "320 mm/s in all directions" but it seems if I get anywhere above about 30 things go south...

What is the fifth stepper driver specifically for?

Got the kit assembled, and was setting the voltages on the stepper drivers to the initial 0.35v (0.55 for the extruder motor) stated in the build manual, and discovered there isn't a recommended voltage setting for the fifth one. It would make sense that you would only have one per motor, but thought it was odd that they specifically instruct to install the fifth one at the beginning.

Does this fifth stepper driver serve a purpose, or is it just a spare? If it IS needed, what voltage should it be set at?


Side questions- is there a general diagnostic code/sequence list for the RAMPS board? Initially it would power on with two red LEDs, then shortly switch to green. At one point the green switched to red momentarily, then shut down. This was all without having it connected to the computer. I am unable to discern if there is an issue or not, as it will not stay powered on for more than about 10min before shutting down. I was going to get it connected to the computer tonight and get the FW all sorted out before I called it a bad board- gotta relocate the RAMPS/Arduino boards as the cable provided will not fit in the stock mounting location.

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Koenig

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thevisad
For extrusion, you want to buy directly from Misumi. They will custom cut any size for you and give you price breaks on the overall length you buy. 2 pieces will be cheaper then 1, etc. Search the site for part number HFS5-2020-SIZEYOUWANTINMM (ie HFS5-2020-350 is 350 mm). That is series 5 20-20 which is what we use.

Seems I as a private person cannot shop from Misumi-Europe... "Please enter only the company address, private addresses are not accepted."

Well that sucks! That's definitely different then the US site, I have bought a ton of items from there. You can search for T-Slotted Framing in 2020, or use the V Slot from openbuilds

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fattmann
What is the fifth stepper driver specifically for?

Got the kit assembled, and was setting the voltages on the stepper drivers to the initial 0.35v (0.55 for the extruder motor) stated in the build manual, and discovered there isn't a recommended voltage setting for the fifth one. It would make sense that you would only have one per motor, but thought it was odd that they specifically instruct to install the fifth one at the beginning.

Does this fifth stepper driver serve a purpose, or is it just a spare? If it IS needed, what voltage should it be set at?


Side questions- is there a general diagnostic code/sequence list for the RAMPS board? Initially it would power on with two red LEDs, then shortly switch to green. At one point the green switched to red momentarily, then shut down. This was all without having it connected to the computer. I am unable to discern if there is an issue or not, as it will not stay powered on for more than about 10min before shutting down. I was going to get it connected to the computer tonight and get the FW all sorted out before I called it a bad board- gotta relocate the RAMPS/Arduino boards as the cable provided will not fit in the stock mounting location.

The 5th stepper driver is a spare. I just leave it in the ramps board in the open slot so I don't lose it...

Thanks! I was hoping so, as I think one of mine is shot...

The voltage will vary WILDLY. Like 1/32nd of a turn to the right will take you from .005v to 1.5, then another turn in the same direction will get you .6v. I assume the potentiometer is just bunk.

What is the general consensus on upgraded stepper drivers like the G3D versions? It won't be right away, but saw some positive discussions about those and the Stepstick build.

Quote
cislom

I am in the middle of replacing all the ball bearings with stainless steel ones (just ordered) to see if that helps on my rails. They seem to work fine if the are dripping with Super-Lube, but there are a few occasions when printing things with a lot of stop and starts that the rails will "studder" at a certain spot and the print will have a noticeable line where the layers are all moved over .5 to 1.5 mm in one direction. If this doesn't work I was going to look at using the plate and wheels as my final stab at the elusive "buttery smoothness"

So that being said, anybody try the plate and wheels yet? Any pros or cons? I am interested to hear any information - and Thanks Again - this forum is a wealth of information and if nothing else, a place to share the pain

If the balls you are placing in there are not hardened you could make things worse as they get impacted by others. I think people have mentioned the wire bar is the cause of the stuttering on the rails.

I have not worked with the wheels myself; however, I have played with printers that have had them. They are awesome and incredibly smooth as long as you build it right and don't tighten them too much. A 3 wheeled design is all that's needed to get a stable platform. You can see them in this build on this printer, I talked to this guy at Makerfaire Detroit last weekend for a while. He had two different printers there, the tall one and the shorter air delta. One thing that can be noticed is when you tighten the delrin wheels too much, they get a "flat spot". This can be felt as a bump, bump, bump as the wheel hits this location. The effector on his printer is all aluminum milled out on a cnc machine, looks amazing.

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fattmann
Thanks! I was hoping so, as I think one of mine is shot...

The voltage will vary WILDLY. Like 1/32nd of a turn to the right will take you from .005v to 1.5, then another turn in the same direction will get you .6v. I assume the potentiometer is just bunk.

What is the general consensus on upgraded stepper drivers like the G3D versions? It won't be right away, but saw some positive discussions about those and the Stepstick build.

All of the steppers are the same, regardless of whose you use, unless you buy real Polulu drivers. Geeetech would be the next best ones and they fiercely defend their brand. I have dozens of the drivers on the 4988 and 8825 and every one exhibits the issues you are describing. If you want the standard (most likely), then you would use these. for high voltage steppers in the 4988 family (just better ones) you would want to use these, and finally for the high performance steppers you want these 8825.

Note, there are only a few differences between the Polulu and the Chinese steppers. One is a better pot and different size resistors on the drivers and PCB color. There are a few fixes you can do (if you can solder) to your existing drivers, such as replacing the resistors.

Quote
Koenig

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thevisad
For extrusion, you want to buy directly from Misumi. They will custom cut any size for you and give you price breaks on the overall length you buy. 2 pieces will be cheaper then 1, etc. Search the site for part number HFS5-2020-SIZEYOUWANTINMM (ie HFS5-2020-350 is 350 mm). That is series 5 20-20 which is what we use.

Seems I as a private person cannot shop from Misumi-Europe... "Please enter only the company address, private addresses are not accepted."

That is unfortunately correct. I buy extrusion from Motedis instead.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
thevisad

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fattmann
Thanks! I was hoping so, as I think one of mine is shot...

The voltage will vary WILDLY. Like 1/32nd of a turn to the right will take you from .005v to 1.5, then another turn in the same direction will get you .6v. I assume the potentiometer is just bunk.

What is the general consensus on upgraded stepper drivers like the G3D versions? It won't be right away, but saw some positive discussions about those and the Stepstick build.

All of the steppers are the same, regardless of whose you use, unless you buy real Polulu drivers. Geeetech would be the next best ones and they fiercely defend their brand. I have dozens of the drivers on the 4988 and 8825 and every one exhibits the issues you are describing. If you want the standard (most likely), then you would use these. for high voltage steppers in the 4988 family (just better ones) you would want to use these, and finally for the high performance steppers you want these 8825.

Note, there are only a few differences between the Polulu and the Chinese steppers. One is a better pot and different size resistors on the drivers and PCB color. There are a few fixes you can do (if you can solder) to your existing drivers, such as replacing the resistors.

Thank you. I will read up on the matter, and take a look at your links/recommendations.

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thevisad
All of the steppers are the same, regardless of whose you use, unless you buy real Polulu drivers. Geeetech would be the next best ones and they fiercely defend their brand. I have dozens of the drivers on the 4988 and 8825 and every one exhibits the issues you are describing.

The Ice Blue stepper driver modules from T3P3 are also better than the cheap Chinese ones, especially at higher currents. They use A4982 chips and 4-layer PCBs for better cooling.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42

Quote
Koenig

Quote
thevisad
For extrusion, you want to buy directly from Misumi. They will custom cut any size for you and give you price breaks on the overall length you buy. 2 pieces will be cheaper then 1, etc. Search the site for part number HFS5-2020-SIZEYOUWANTINMM (ie HFS5-2020-350 is 350 mm). That is series 5 20-20 which is what we use.

Would 350mm suffice to fit a 330mm bed?

I see it varies between the the different kits out there, Robotdigg (haver their corners) as an example uses 360mm but a 300mm bed, my thought is to fit a 330mm heated bed and a 300mm glass on top of that.

The printable area also depends on how close the effector can get to the towers. I use 355mm horizontals and a 330mm aluminium bed with a mains powered heater. Using a standard Mini Kossel effector, that gives me a little over 300mm printable diameter. I use 330mm glass so that the bed clips at the edges don't impact the printable area. See my blog entry at [miscsolutions.wordpress.com] for details.

Hah, I want to build this thing, this is SeeMeCNC's 20 foot delta, they told me that it cost 15000-20000 in parts alone.

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dc42

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thevisad
All of the steppers are the same, regardless of whose you use, unless you buy real Polulu drivers. Geeetech would be the next best ones and they fiercely defend their brand. I have dozens of the drivers on the 4988 and 8825 and every one exhibits the issues you are describing.

The Ice Blue stepper driver modules from T3P3 are also better than the cheap Chinese ones, especially at higher currents. They use A4982 chips and 4-layer PCBs for better cooling.

Ahh, yeah add these too, the 4982 drivers are nice drivers. They are out of stock on them, but are offering the blacks up at a discount.

Quote
Koenig

Quote
thevisad
For extrusion, you want to buy directly from Misumi. They will custom cut any size for you and give you price breaks on the overall length you buy. 2 pieces will be cheaper then 1, etc. Search the site for part number HFS5-2020-SIZEYOUWANTINMM (ie HFS5-2020-350 is 350 mm). That is series 5 20-20 which is what we use.

Would 350mm suffice to fit a 330mm bed?

I see it varies between the the different kits out there, Robotdigg (haver their corners) as an example uses 360mm but a 300mm bed, my thought is to fit a 330mm heated bed and a 300mm glass on top of that.

Looks like 350 would be too small that's a height of 303 on the triangle which would not have enough space to accommodate that bed. Sides at 450 give you a height of 389 - your corners would be 350ish? You might have an issue with the 2020 bowing a bit at that size.

[keisan.casio.com]

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fattmann
Thanks! I was hoping so, as I think one of mine is shot...

The voltage will vary WILDLY. Like 1/32nd of a turn to the right will take you from .005v to 1.5, then another turn in the same direction will get you .6v. I assume the potentiometer is just bunk.

What is the general consensus on upgraded stepper drivers like the G3D versions? It won't be right away, but saw some positive discussions about those and the Stepstick build.

Mine were super twitchy to dial in as well. Mine don't particularly like to stay set either. Twice I've gone to re-check the settings because my motors were too hot and the drivers had crept up from .35 to .55. Doesn't exactly instill confidence.

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thevisad

Quote
cislom

I am in the middle of replacing all the ball bearings with stainless steel ones (just ordered) to see if that helps on my rails. They seem to work fine if the are dripping with Super-Lube, but there are a few occasions when printing things with a lot of stop and starts that the rails will "studder" at a certain spot and the print will have a noticeable line where the layers are all moved over .5 to 1.5 mm in one direction. If this doesn't work I was going to look at using the plate and wheels as my final stab at the elusive "buttery smoothness"

So that being said, anybody try the plate and wheels yet? Any pros or cons? I am interested to hear any information - and Thanks Again - this forum is a wealth of information and if nothing else, a place to share the pain

If the balls you are placing in there are not hardened you could make things worse as they get impacted by others. I think people have mentioned the wire bar is the cause of the stuttering on the rails.

I have not worked with the wheels myself; however, I have played with printers that have had them. They are awesome and incredibly smooth as long as you build it right and don't tighten them too much. A 3 wheeled design is all that's needed to get a stable platform. You can see them in this build on this printer, I talked to this guy at Makerfaire Detroit last weekend for a while. He had two different printers there, the tall one and the shorter air delta. One thing that can be noticed is when you tighten the delrin wheels too much, they get a "flat spot". This can be felt as a bump, bump, bump as the wheel hits this location. The effector on his printer is all aluminum milled out on a cnc machine, looks amazing.

54f8b629f1.jpg

I live about 30 mins away from the Henry Ford and missed the MakerFaire this year due to other commitments! - Small world!

Yea I took the wire out and that really didn't help much. The grease starts to turn black after running up and down the rails for a bit, so this means that there are somethings wearing out in the carriages, because the rails themselves are hardened. I am thinking that the ball bearings that were included are not that great.

I will try these out when they show up, and/or get some hardened ones and see if they work any better. If not, then the next step is to go with the wheels.

Thanks again!

Well poop.

I seems my Arduino board has crapped out. I swapped one stepper driver with the super sensitive pot with the spare, and was dialing everything in when it went dark again.

I separated the two boards and connected the Arduino board to the computer with no luck on power- either USB or external. I found online a guide to test the voltage regulator, as my over current protection circuit was blazingly hot. I confirmed a short on pins 1 and 2 on the voltage regulator. As per that guide that means it's bad.

I sent Folger Tech a message through their "contact us" option, and mentioned the broken pin on the RAMPS board as well.

While I wait for response on whether I need to order a new board, is there any way to test the RAMPS board separately? I don't know if something with the RAMPS board took out the Arduino, or if vice versa.

I had also read on that guide that you can remove the voltage regulator from the Arduino board and still use the USB power. If I do that, will I be able to limp it along, as long as I have it connected to USB, until I get another board?

I would need a URL where to download the latest version of the Build Manual (PDF).

And if anyone can supply an image (photo) of each kind of hardware that was included for this printer? That would make it easier to identify each of the bolts, nuts, washers and such. Thanks a lot!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2015 10:58PM by Sven.L.

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Sven.L
I would need a URL where to download the latest version of the Build Manual (PDF).

And if anyone can supply an image (photo) of each kind of hardware that was included for this printer? That would make it easier to identify each of the bolts, nuts, washers and such. Thanks a lot!

[drive.google.com]

You can use a ruler to check the measurements of the screws.

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fattmann
Well poop.

I seems my Arduino board has crapped out. I swapped one stepper driver with the super sensitive pot with the spare, and was dialing everything in when it went dark again.

I separated the two boards and connected the Arduino board to the computer with no luck on power- either USB or external. I found online a guide to test the voltage regulator, as my over current protection circuit was blazingly hot. I confirmed a short on pins 1 and 2 on the voltage regulator. As per that guide that means it's bad.

I sent Folger Tech a message through their "contact us" option, and mentioned the broken pin on the RAMPS board as well.

While I wait for response on whether I need to order a new board, is there any way to test the RAMPS board separately? I don't know if something with the RAMPS board took out the Arduino, or if vice versa.

I had also read on that guide that you can remove the voltage regulator from the Arduino board and still use the USB power. If I do that, will I be able to limp it along, as long as I have it connected to USB, until I get another board?

The RAMPS is just really a pass through for the pins on the Arduino. The only thing that you can really do there is replace the resetable fuses with care fuses and that will increase your power flow through the board. Check this page towards the bottom for some information on that.

Also Microcenter has Arduino Mega's in stock for 9.99 + shipping and the ramps for 19.99 These are Sainsmart and inland versions and my sainsmart mega was running my delta with zero issues. I used both the LCD and the Servo on it without external power being supplied and it was more then enough.

Hello everyone -

i heard some talk about using the plates and bearings on the towers instead of the bearings. I have a CNC machine and i was wondering if any of you would know of a link that you could share?

TheVisad, thanks for the URL. I was asking for it, because there is for me an uncertainity inside the manual, in regards to the mounting of the top frame. I wanted to make sure, I have the latest manual. having it now, my problems are solved (at least for now).

Still hoping, someone can put photos here of all different hardware types and their naming, that would allow me to know, what is what.

What are people settings in Slic3r? I would like to comapare see if I can get my prints even better.

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cman8
What are people settings in Slic3r? I would like to comapare see if I can get my prints even better.

That all depends on what is to be printed, material used, if you aim for speed, looks, ridgidity

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Koenig

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cman8
What are people settings in Slic3r? I would like to comapare see if I can get my prints even better.

That all depends on what is to be printed, material used, if you aim for speed, looks, ridgidity

I'm only printing in pla at the moment. Say I wanted to go for looks over speed on an object. What would your setting typically be to start with?

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Rattfink
Hello everyone -

i heard some talk about using the plates and bearings on the towers instead of the bearings. I have a CNC machine and i was wondering if any of you would know of a link that you could share?

It's very common to use printed carriage trucks and rollers on Kossels. I use them on my 2020 Kossel. You can find the printed part I use and a couple of pics at [www.thingiverse.com].

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42
It's very common to use printed carriage trucks and rollers on Kossels. I use them on my 2020 Kossel. You can find the printed part I use and a couple of pics at [www.thingiverse.com].

Thanks much for the link!

Any good recommendations to get the wheels and bearings?

The bearings are standard 623ZZ. My wheels came from here [www.think3dprint3d.com] but I have also seen them here [deltaprintr.com]. You need to make sure that the V-part of the wheel is wider than the slot in your extrusions, so that the V-part runs in the slots.

PS - googling for "delrin v-roller" brings up some other suppliers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2015 04:50PM by dc42.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42
The bearings are standard 623ZZ. My wheels came from here [www.think3dprint3d.com] but I have also seen them here [deltaprintr.com]. You need to make sure that the V-part of the wheel is wider than the slot in your extrusions, so that the V-part runs in the slots.

Thanks much, I was having issues with one of my towers seizing up and the other two moving forward causing a shift in the layer about 4mm away from the bad tower. at first thought it was the bearing but noticed that it happened near the same time each print attempt. I put the printer up on some blocks and 5hr print finished without issues!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2015 10:53PM by Rattfink.

Finally got the printer assembled, after having to order a new Arduino board.

Now I can't get the Arduino to talk to the computer. Before connecting the RAMPS shield, we ran Blink on just the Mega with success, powered only by USB. After we finished the final assembly and buttoned everything up- we started getting "The handle is invalid error" errors. I was running a Win 8 laptop, and had hell getting the driver uninstalled, and reinstalled without driver signing. Not sure why it just worked the first time, but never again.

So we moved it to my Win 7 desktop, now we get timeout errors.

On the Win 8 machine it would show up in Device Manager under COM3 or which ever USB port I had it in. On the Win 7 machine it shows up as both COM17 and COM1. Trying to flash or run Blink on COM1 fails, and COM17 gives timeout error.

This is the first Arduino device I've toyed with. Any suggestions? My troubleshooting toolbox just isn't there from lack of experience.

Quote
fattmann
Finally got the printer assembled, after having to order a new Arduino board.

Now I can't get the Arduino to talk to the computer. Before connecting the RAMPS shield, we ran Blink on just the Mega with success, powered only by USB. After we finished the final assembly and buttoned everything up- we started getting "The handle is invalid error" errors. I was running a Win 8 laptop, and had hell getting the driver uninstalled, and reinstalled without driver signing. Not sure why it just worked the first time, but never again.

So we moved it to my Win 7 desktop, now we get timeout errors.

On the Win 8 machine it would show up in Device Manager under COM3 or which ever USB port I had it in. On the Win 7 machine it shows up as both COM17 and COM1. Trying to flash or run Blink on COM1 fails, and COM17 gives timeout error.

This is the first Arduino device I've toyed with. Any suggestions? My troubleshooting toolbox just isn't there from lack of experience.

What version of Arduino are you using? The drivers come embedded in the Arduino software, if you use the installer it will install the proper drivers. Prior to being able to program it, you need to be able to identify it and make sure it appears in the device manager as the proper item. Once that is done, you need to select the device and the board type in the Arduino studio. You can read here on some basic trouble shooting you can do.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2015 09:31PM by thevisad.