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Kapton and PLA

Posted by Thelandofthedave 
Kapton and PLA
August 23, 2014 06:36AM
Im finding that my prints dont stick well when printing PLA to Kapton. I am printing 3mm PLA through a .5 nozzle. I have the bed heated to 70C and the hot end to 185.
I am finding on small items it is fine. But on larger or denser items after about 30 minutes of printing the entire item will break free from the bed.
From googling about on this topic im starting to think that printing to glass or blue tape is a better option. If i get a sheet of glass to lay down what is the thickness requirement? 2-3mm?

I am cleaning the bed between printing attempts using rubbing alcohol(nothing fancy just the drug store stuff). Is Kapton just not a good choice?
Re: Kapton and PLA
August 23, 2014 08:35AM
I never use Kapton with PLA only with ABS. For PLA, I use a wiped-on layer of diluted white glue such as elmers. I dilute it approximately 1 part glue to 4 parts water and it works well.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2014 12:18PM by jbernardis.
Re: Kapton and PLA
August 23, 2014 09:17AM
For PLA I have been using blue "painters tape" on 3mm glass.
I was also given a sheet of buildtak to test and have used it with both ABS at 110C and PLA at 60C with great results - again it's stuck onto 3mm glass. For ABS I'd use the buildtak, for PLA use blue painters tape
I found kapton tape a real pain to use as it's hard to get it to lay onto the glass neatly.
In slic3r you can also use a setting that heads the bed 5C more for the first layer. Under expert mode -> "Filament Settings" -> "Filament"

Steve
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Re: Kapton and PLA
August 23, 2014 09:22AM
While I'm out I'm going to stop and pick up some glass. Hopefully tonight I'll be printing and sticking.
Re: Kapton and PLA
August 23, 2014 02:48PM
Quote
jbernardis
I never use Kapton with PLA only with ABS. For PLA, I use a wiped-on layer of diluted white glue such as elmers. I dilute it approximately 1 part glue to 4 parts water and it works well.

I've been printing with something similar for quite a while and it improves adhesion tremendously.


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Re: Kapton and PLA
August 23, 2014 03:58PM
Quote
jbernardis
I never use Kapton with PLA only with ABS. For PLA, I use a wiped-on layer of diluted white glue such as elmers. I dilute it approximately 1 part glue to 4 parts water and it works well.

What surface are you putting this on?
Re: Kapton and PLA
August 23, 2014 06:03PM
Quote
Thelandofthedave

What surface are you putting this on?

ordinary window glass
Re: Kapton and PLA
August 23, 2014 06:48PM
I bought some glass today but will not be able to pick it up until after the long weekend next week, as i will be away. But i picked up some blue tape and placed it direct on my bed. That did the trick. Once the glass is in my hands i will experiment with all the various methods people have shared with me and see what works good for me.
one thing i am seeing right now is my first attempt with blue tape went perfect. second print took me three attempts to get the first layer to stick. But once the first layer sticks it seems to be working great.
Im printing up pieces to put together to make a spool holder for my filament. After that the printer is moving across the room to its final home.
Re: Kapton and PLA
August 26, 2014 01:02AM
A print cooling fan helps too with PLA. I use glass wiped with balsamic vinegar which gives good adhesion. Lemon juice works for me too.
Re: Kapton and PLA
August 29, 2014 12:39PM
I have very good luck with PLA on bare clean glass at 65C.
Re: Kapton and PLA
August 29, 2014 09:48PM
I'll be picking up glass on Monday. Blue tape has been hit or miss with adhesion issues. I still have the problem I shared in another thread with the motors shifting though.
Re: Kapton and PLA
August 31, 2014 02:52PM
I have a couple of sheets of glass covered with Kapton tape and they work great for PLA. I clean them with acetone and heat them to 60C. Things stick so well I have to let it cool to be able to pry the parts off. I believe using acetone to clean them makes all the difference.


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Re: Kapton and PLA
September 01, 2014 06:26PM
Getting the glass tomorrow. Actually i just picked it up but i have some other stuff to take care of tonight. I'll start with bare glass heated to 60c and see what that gets me. Then i will start using suggestions you all have made.
Re: Kapton and PLA
September 03, 2014 08:09PM
Got the glass. Im finding that the advice to use alcohol and then vinegar seems to work just great. My prints so far are superior to anything i was getting on blue tape. I am finding that my first layer seems a bit too thick but i do not think that is related to the bed. I am going to play around and try to solve that and if not i will start a new thread. Thanks to all that gave me some input on this.
Re: Kapton and PLA
September 14, 2014 04:08AM
I have tried various print surfaces, all with PLA:

1. Kapton tape on glass at 55 to 60C. Mostly worked OK, except for one reel of filament that wouldn't stick to it. You need to clean it with isopropanol or acetone between prints. Prints sometimes stick too well to it. I gave up printing on Kapton a few months ago because when the bed gets damaged, replacing the tape takes too long.

2. Direct on glass at 60 to 70C. Works well with most of my PLA filaments, but I have a couple of filaments that won't stick to it. Wash the glass initially with hot soapy water, then heat it and wipe it with vinegar just before printing. Don't use acetone or isopropanol. If you avoid finger marking the bed, then between prints you just need to wipe it with vinegar again. Usually, when the glass cools to room temperature the print comes off easily, but if it doesn't then I put glass+print in the freezer.

3. Solvent pipe cement, optionally diluted with acetone, painted on the glass, at 55 to 60C. I use this for prints/filaments that won't adhere directly to glass.

I have also heard that super hold hairspray sprayed on to glass works well as a base for printing. I haven't tried using diluted PLA on the bed yet.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2014 04:10AM by dc42.

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Re: Kapton and PLA
September 14, 2014 07:01AM
I just finished the bottom part of a Grumpkin in PLA, on glass with Elmer's Disappearing Purple Washable School Glue stick applied. It works very well, even with ABS.


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Re: Kapton and PLA
September 17, 2014 07:08PM
Since i switched to glass I have been wiping it down with isopropyl alcohol and balsamic vinegar between prints. I have not had a single problem since i started doing it this way.
Re: Kapton and PLA
September 18, 2014 05:50PM
Mine is in blue painter tape in a piece of acrilic instead of glass... No heat needed... Sticks very well, even need plies to unglue...
Re: Kapton and PLA
January 14, 2017 01:31PM
do you guys have any luck with aluminum surfaces? i dont have glass, might get some soon. im using 3m blut painters, 190 nozzle 77 heat bed no luck, ive tried several times with diff settings
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