Sonic welding type heating of filament AND previous print layer?

Has that ever been tried, long ago or recently? sonic welding seems very efficient, also other uses of high frequency vibration in manufacturing and experimentation allow organization of particles... seems like it might be interesting topic.

could high frequency sound be focused to melt both the filament and the bonding point to the layer, possibly even shape the material side walls with the focal point and frequency or some other means of organizing the melted material as it is being pushed out by the extrusion pressure?

I know sonic welding is generally contact based, easier on the filament tip than on the layer below so maybe dont focus on that unless you know of a way for that to happen. reason I want that is for really strong bonding but it's not something I really thought through deeply, just researched a bit and it seems like at least for filament it might be an interesting and enlightening experiment. The 'Sonotrode' part seems like it could have filament pass through and heat at the tip just like a hotend. If that ultrasonic vibration would do that internally opposing itself or the tapering walls of a throat tube acting as the 'anvil' part of an ultrasonic welding setup.

I am wondering if anyone has seen anything like this or heard of it? Or if it's something new that might be useful to experts in related fields that can evaluate such a concept and take it forward? hopefully the later.

Cheers have a nice day

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2016 04:12AM by Milton.

... the efficience of sonic welding/heating is correlated to the stiffness and density/weight of the material - while it's pretty good usable with metal, plastic is sort of "spongy" for ultrasound waves, so you'll have to fill it with ceramic or metallic microparticles to get this working good enough -- but then too, thermal or even optical (halogen bulb, laser) heating/melting is much easier and cheaper to accomplish ...

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

I saw 4-5 different methods for plastics alone. metal process being different than plastic and usually using conducted flow of electricity through the metal, just totally different than the plastics ultrasonic welding methods. As well, the cost did not appear rediculous just a little pricey. I have had many ultrasound treatments for a replaced ACL in a knee and a back surgery from a rock climbing accident, it gets hot very well using the water in the body at the frequencies used for medical devices. Other frequencies tune for other materials and density. That was sort of the point, adjust frequency instead of adding heat seemed like possibly an interesting way of approaching things.

I am not feeling a huge amount of the adventurous spirit that I had hoped to find in online 3d printing communities. what is the harm in someone that has access to an ultrasonic welder trying something new? maybe someone works somewhere that has access to an out of warrenty old unit for cheap to try something totally new? They are not hugely expensive they are just a niche product and not a huge demand. Over priced for the electronics and machined parts, specialty item, also typically HUGE compared to using the technology in a printing head versus a large rivet welder for big plastic objects.

Was not a suggestion of replacing current technology. Is it so bad to consider other concepts? where is the playful fun and curious 3d community? I am getting a lot of overdramatic stressed out answers from those that seem to think they know the answers. Not saying they dont know many relevant answers to pertinent questions, but the sort of exasperated 'no stop trying to think anything new' makes me think the online community has had so much tech support for crappy kits dumped on it that it has no capacity to be playful or fun and limited in creativity.

I am going to just stop posting anything, since it always gets someone that thinks they are saving all the kit buyers coming back with a 'dont confuse my flock of sheep!' type response. No conversation, just over dramatic stuff I just do not understand the need for.

... in short - I was involved in a project, where we had to fuse different materials including metal, ceramic, glass and plastic.

They tried with microwaves, IR-heaters, ultrasonic and lasers - best progress with plastic was made with IR-lasers and for the used IR transparent top parts, so the laser heated/melted only the contact surfaces.

Some 30 years ago I tested at home with ultrasonics for different uses (have some of the used piezo-discs and old US-generators somewhere in the basement) - my goals then was using it for 2D/3D-localisation of the sender in fluids and on glass surfaces, but did some "playing" around too. Did even some welding tests ... but the energies used for welding were high enough to damage surrounding "soft" materials too, so had to install security measures to prevent "open" US emiting.

Then changed to laser heating/welding and most of the associated problems vanished

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Quote
Milton
I am not feeling a huge amount of the adventurous spirit that I had hoped to find in online 3d printing communities. what is the harm in someone that has access to an ultrasonic welder trying something new? maybe someone works somewhere that has access to an out of warrenty old unit for cheap to try something totally new? They are not hugely expensive they are just a niche product and not a huge demand. Over priced for the electronics and machined parts, specialty item, also typically HUGE compared to using the technology in a printing head versus a large rivet welder for big plastic objects.

Was not a suggestion of replacing current technology. Is it so bad to consider other concepts? where is the playful fun and curious 3d community? I am getting a lot of overdramatic stressed out answers from those that seem to think they know the answers. Not saying they dont know many relevant answers to pertinent questions, but the sort of exasperated 'no stop trying to think anything new' makes me think the online community has had so much tech support for crappy kits dumped on it that it has no capacity to be playful or fun and limited in creativity.

I am going to just stop posting anything, since it always gets someone that thinks they are saving all the kit buyers coming back with a 'dont confuse my flock of sheep!' type response. No conversation, just over dramatic stuff I just do not understand the need for.

You got all that from a single, one paragraph reply to your post?

---

Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]

VDX Thanks for the interesting info. Thanks for not perceiving my simple desire to know something as a big pain in the butt. I figured someone that had messed with that type of thing would not mind another being interested.

I still think there are future possibilities with this, maybe... or maybe not, never know till you think and discuss. Thanks again VDX very interesting, glad to have some keywords of related information to research further.

... found an interesting comparison between additive manufacturing with ultrasonics and/or laser - look at the image "Bibliometric analysis" and especially the peak heights on the left side for "Ultrasonic additive manufacturing" and "Selective laser melting":

[www.3ders.org]


This shows mostly our experience with the two different methodes too, if counted for ease of use and results ...

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]