Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

How About A 3D Laser Printer?

Posted by jdoll 
How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 24, 2009 04:45PM
It strikes me that modern laser printers, now incredibly inexpensive and capable, could be adapted to print solid models. Most of the hard design work is already done. The main part undone is to adapt the toner transfer mechanism to deposit toner as a build layer, instead of on paper. Toner consists of plastic particles mixed with pigment that softens at a relatively low temperature – just the right stuff for making full color models.

In a never-ending quest for higher resolution printing, manufacturers have reduced toner particle size to around 0.8 um. Something on the order of 100 um would be better for modeling. This should make modeling toner cheaper.

On a good day earlier this year, we picked up a Xerox Phaser 6130 for $225. A look inside (while chasing down a paper jam) reveals that all 4 toner colors get deposited on a transport belt. The belt moves upward behind the front of the cabinet, toner facing forward. It there meets the surface of a paper sheet, moving upward in front of the toner. A fuser then heats this toner sandwich so that toner particles melt and bond with the paper. If I understand correctly, the fuser also removes electrostatic charge from the transport belt, so toner is no longer attracted to it.

For 3D printing, the following modifications appear necessary:

1) Substitute larger particle size toner. (Hopefully, the existing electrostatics/laser will work without modification.)
2) Rework the paper transport to substitute a model build surface for paper
3) Modify the fuser to melt and squish the toner just enough to bond to the previous build layer without deforming it.

Does this sound easy, or what? :-)
VDX
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 24, 2009 05:54PM
Hi jdoll,

... search in the Forum with "thermotransfer" and "All Dates" - we had some talk regarding this sort of fabbing ...

Viktor
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 24, 2009 11:10PM
I did as you suggested, and found some interesting discussion.

Most of the proposals involved selective heating of the build surface to effect transfer in that area. For the most part, this gets you back to placing (or bonding) a pixel at a time.

I thought your personal idea of a "selective vacuum" was quite interesting. The discussion did not proceed far enough to indicate how to build such a thing, or how to release and bond the particles selectively held.

The laser printer's transport belt is in many ways like your selective vacuum. Particles stick to it selectively because of electrostatic charge instead of vacuum, but it similarly transports them to their destination. Once the toner particles are in position, they can be fused to the previous layer with broadly applied (non-selective) heat and pressure applied *through* the belt.

At this point, the transfer belt represents highly refined, proven, and relatively inexpensive technology with a spectacular track record. It is capable of build speeds far in excess of a single point extruder (or most other point-by-point schemes) with high accuracy and multiple materials. It is probably feasible to use a higher melting point, or soluble, material as removable support during fabrication.

Assuming a layer width of 0.05 mm, and a moderate speed of 10 layers (equivalent to laser printer pages) per minute, a model of paper-sheet sized X-Y dimensions and 200 mm Z dimension would require 400 minutes, or 6 hr, 40 min to build.
VDX
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 25, 2009 02:57AM
... some 15 years ago a company (maybe Xerox) had a printer with bulk wax-bars as printing materials, scrapped and melted to fluid and printed with a sort of inkjet.

Single sheets had an excellent result with 'smoothed' chars and lines some ten microns high fused with the paper.

Some tests for stacking more slices were successfull, so i estimated a cheap 'phazer'-3D-printer would arrive the market long before 2000, but after two years the company dropped all the activities in this direction sad smiley

Then 3D-wax- and UV-stereolitho-printers were competing against LOM-printers and i think the comercial aspect was more essential than effectivity confused smiley

Now with lowcost-FDM we're entering the next rund, so maybe the next years some more re-development in the other interesting areas will start too?

Viktor
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 25, 2009 03:54PM
It seems like Xerox would be in an excellent position to invent a 3D laser (or wax, or something) printer. They have not been known for following up on their own inventive innovations from the Palo Alto Research Center, or, in recent years, even for the nuts and bolts of running their business profitably.

Xerox still sells printers that melt blocks of colored wax. I have heard they used to create a terrible stench when operated. Now they have been improved to a point of reduced obnoxiousness, but are not odor free.
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 25, 2009 07:20PM
Viktor, they still have printers that use bars of wax as ink. They are known as solid ink printers, and can have very good print quality.
[en.wikipedia.org]
Also, they are available at decent pices secondhand. Modifying one into a 3d printer might be a bit of feat though...
VDX
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 26, 2009 03:16AM
... ummm ... then why not reinventing 3D-wax-printing with highest quality confused smiley

For overhangs there should be a watersoluble solid ink too, so this issue can be adressed too ...

Viktor
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 26, 2009 05:11PM
VDX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... ummm ... then why not reinventing
> 3D-wax-printing with highest quality confused smiley
>
> For overhangs there should be a watersoluble solid
> ink too, so this issue can be adressed too ...
>
> Viktor

The point of the 3D laser proposal is to leverage existing inexpensive, high performance and well proven designs for 3D printing, with minimal reinvention or modification. Laser printers are well suited because:

1) They use plastic (toner) material particularly desirable for 3D modeling
2) They are capable of rapid build rates
3) Necessary modifications appear small in comparison to the unmodified portion to be repurposed
4) Their technology is mature, widely deployed and available, and relatively inexpensive.
5) 2D performance is generally considered excellent.

While wax printers may meet #5, they don't qualify for 1-4. They are a distant also-ran in the marketplace.

It is probably possible to repurpose laser printers for 3D use with NO MODIFICATIONS AT ALL! It may even be practical. Try this:

1) Print each model layer on a toner transfer sheet.
2) Move each toner transfer sheet in turn to the 3D build space, positioning it carefully horizontally and vertically, toner side down. (This step may be manual or automated.)
3) Apply heat and pressure to the back of the toner transfer sheet sufficient to reflow and bond the toner onto the build surface below. (Again, either automatic or manual.)
4) Peel back the toner transfer sheet, exposing the topmost build layer.

EXTRA CREDIT: Add an enclosing wall around the build space. After bonding each layer, the unbuilt area within the wall can be filled with unbonded inert powder or toner particles. This would provide support for arbitrary overhangs, and help keep the toner transfer sheet level.

Note this supports FULL COLOR models!

To make the build layers reasonably thick, toner cartridges should be loaded with toner of extra large particle size, on the order of 100 um. Some laser printers may have "density" settings that can supply a somewhat thick layer with normal sized toner.

Toner transfer sheets can probably be reused for at least several cycles if chosen with care.
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 27, 2009 07:26PM
The desktop factory I think is based on this kind of Idea.. though it looks like they need funding urgently News [www.desktopfactory.com]

main site [www.desktopfactory.com]

I think some of the staff at desktop factory were head hunted from Xerox

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2009 07:32PM by BodgeIt.


Bodge It [reprap.org]
=======================================

BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board BIQ Stepcon BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting Print It Stick It Cut it


My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 28, 2009 01:36PM
BodgeIt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The desktop factory I think is based on this kind
> of Idea.. though it looks like they need funding
> urgently News
> [www.desktopfactory.com]
>
> main site [www.desktopfactory.com]
>
> I think some of the staff at desktop factory were
> head hunted from Xerox


That could be. It is hard to tell from their description - "uses an inexpensive halogen light source and drum printing technology to build robust parts layer by layer from composite plastic powder."

I wonder what would be the purpose of the halogen light? Also, why such a small build space compared to normal paper sheet size? I don't see any suggestion of multi-material or multi-color either. At $4,995, it would be near an order of magnitude more expensive than a modified 2D laser mechanism would have to be. The price may be more a function of venture capital goals, coupled with perception that there is no direct competition.

Whatever tricks they use, sounds like it might be a great product if they ever manage to squeak it out the door.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2009 01:53PM by jdoll.
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 29, 2009 05:35AM
The halogen lamp is th heat source to bond the plastic powder.

The current price would make this comercial printer have lowest price by a factor of more than 10 times lower than any other 3D printer.

If it suceeds it will be an off the shelf 3D printing machine that people will buy for home and small buisness use.

Its strange if re-jigging a Lazer printer as you describe was as simple.
Im supprized that the likes of HP or Xerox with theire huge R&D resorces & experience have not yet produced a low end 3D printer.

How about all the other runners in the feild the Sanyo's Lexmarks to name just two other big players.

Maybe they are all working like mad to be the first and beat/undercut the desktop factory.


Bodge It [reprap.org]
=======================================

BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board BIQ Stepcon BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting Print It Stick It Cut it


My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
June 30, 2009 01:12AM
BodgeIt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The halogen lamp is th heat source to bond the
> plastic powder.
>
> The current price would make this comercial
> printer have lowest price by a factor of more than
> 10 times lower than any other 3D printer.
>
> If it suceeds it will be an off the shelf 3D
> printing machine that people will buy for home and
> small buisness use.
>
> Its strange if re-jigging a Lazer printer as you
> describe was as simple.
> Im supprized that the likes of HP or Xerox with
> theire huge R&D resorces & experience have not yet
> produced a low end 3D printer.
>
> How about all the other runners in the feild the
> Sanyo's Lexmarks to name just two other big
> players.
>
> Maybe they are all working like mad to be the
> first and beat/undercut the desktop factory.

Apparently Desktop Factory has dawdled to the point that 10:1 price differential you mentioned is down to 3:1. The $14,900 Dimension uPrint claims to be a real, orderable product.

Don't be too surprised that the HP's and Xerox's of the world don't produce disruptive products, even though they have the resources and know-how. Big, ossified corporate culture rewards strings of steady 15% year over year gains, and shuns "risky" out-of-the-park hits. This seems almost universally true, even for companies whose initial success and growth was based on innovation. Can you think of anything "disruptive" that has come from HP since either a Hewlett or a Packard has been at the helm? Apple has done a much better job of exploiting Xerox's computer inventions than has Xerox. Apple sank into 15%ism while the Pepsi marketing king was in charge, but has resuscitated since Steve Jobs returned to leadership. HP and Xerox are more likely to wait for a Desktop Factory to demonstrate success, then buy the company. That is typically how venture capitalists hope to exit with a big pay day. Fear of vulnerablity to real competition may explain Desktop Factory's failure to raise additional capital. HP or Xerox could have produced a "professional" RepRap too, but did not.

It is possible that re-jiggering a laser printer is not as simple as I describe. In fact, I have already thought of a couple obstacles, and ways around them too. If the point of this forum is collaborative effort toward 3D nirvana, maybe someone can contribute either a suggestion to move the idea forward, or a substantive reason why it is fatally flawed. The same goes for my proposal for an extruder of dynamically programmable width.
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
July 05, 2009 10:49AM
This isnt a laser printer, but I think it fits in with the discusion, very high quality, but a bit messy!

[homemade3dprinter.blogspot.com]

Phil
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
August 16, 2009 03:13PM
Yes that is very nice I cant quite see how the z axis is being handled or how the material is being re spread for the next layer though. Maybe its being done by hand.. or im just not seeing how it works..


Bodge It [reprap.org]
=======================================

BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board BIQ Stepcon BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting Print It Stick It Cut it


My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]
Re: How About A 3D Laser Printer?
August 23, 2011 06:16AM
@VDX: I would ignore anything from an unregistered user.

*** EDIT by VDX: ... yes, it's more like a spam-bot placing comercial links than usefull ... so i've deleted them eye rolling smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2011 06:21AM by VDX.


Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login