Odd Temp Sensor behavior
Posted by amellors
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Odd Temp Sensor behavior January 27, 2017 08:28PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 9 |
I have a Due board with RADDs running RepRap Firmware:
SENT: M115
READ: FIRMWARE_NAME: RepRapFirmware for RADDS FIRMWARE_VERSION: 1.17c+2 ELECTRONICS: RADDS 1.5 FIRMWARE_DATE: 2017-01-24
I have an E3D v6 hotend & stock temp probe. Often the probe seems to go offline, and the M105 calls return something like this:
SENT: M105
READ: ok T:B:16.2
SENT: M105
READ: ok T:B:16.3
Where there is just NO temp in there at all.
Has anyone seen this behavior before?
Even though I know the values would be wrong, swapping the Bed & Hotend probes I get something on the bed responses so I'm 90% sure it's not the probe at fault.
A reset of the board fixes it for a while, but it will eventually fail again.
SENT: M115
READ: FIRMWARE_NAME: RepRapFirmware for RADDS FIRMWARE_VERSION: 1.17c+2 ELECTRONICS: RADDS 1.5 FIRMWARE_DATE: 2017-01-24
I have an E3D v6 hotend & stock temp probe. Often the probe seems to go offline, and the M105 calls return something like this:
SENT: M105
READ: ok T:B:16.2
SENT: M105
READ: ok T:B:16.3
Where there is just NO temp in there at all.
Has anyone seen this behavior before?
Even though I know the values would be wrong, swapping the Bed & Hotend probes I get something on the bed responses so I'm 90% sure it's not the probe at fault.
A reset of the board fixes it for a while, but it will eventually fail again.
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior January 28, 2017 10:41AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
It sounds that you have no tool defined. Have you defined a tool in config.g using the M563 command?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2017 10:44AM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2017 10:44AM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior January 30, 2017 09:22AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 9 |
Yeah. I'll attach my configs when I get home tonight.
I have a tool attached, and the printer behaves some times. Eg. I start a simple print (3mm calibration box) and it works for maybe 4 or 5 layers, and then the console says "Not powering Hot end due to temp fault" so the temps drop and everything goes to hell.
I then cancel the print, reset the board, and the temp comes back to what is approx should be if the heater was off for some length of time. I then try to heat up the head again, and it faults out saying "Temp not raising fast enough, cancelling heat." and then the temp on that probe gets lost.
I'm wondering if there isn't something wrong with my wiring, but short of getting a new controller board to test I'm kind of at a loss for what to test. Everything seems to be fine resistance & continuity wise from my controller board -> print carriage.
[Edit Attached file, this is the current version has a bunch of edits while I try and debug]
I have a tool attached, and the printer behaves some times. Eg. I start a simple print (3mm calibration box) and it works for maybe 4 or 5 layers, and then the console says "Not powering Hot end due to temp fault" so the temps drop and everything goes to hell.
I then cancel the print, reset the board, and the temp comes back to what is approx should be if the heater was off for some length of time. I then try to heat up the head again, and it faults out saying "Temp not raising fast enough, cancelling heat." and then the temp on that probe gets lost.
I'm wondering if there isn't something wrong with my wiring, but short of getting a new controller board to test I'm kind of at a loss for what to test. Everything seems to be fine resistance & continuity wise from my controller board -> print carriage.
[Edit Attached file, this is the current version has a bunch of edits while I try and debug]
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior January 30, 2017 09:17PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 9 |
Just tried to heat it up again (While I was editing the previous post to include the config file)
This is what I see:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2017 09:18PM by amellors.
This is what I see:
SENT: M140 S50 READ: ok SENT: M104 S215 T0 READ: ok SENT: M105 READ: ok T:15.0 B:15.9 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:15.0 B:16.3 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:15.8 B:16.8 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:17.7 B:17.3 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:20.5 B:17.5 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:24.1 B:17.9 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:28.1 B:18.3 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:32.6 B:18.7 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:36.9 B:19.0 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:41.3 B:19.4 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:45.6 B:19.9 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:49.8 B:20.2 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:54.0 B:20.7 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:57.9 B:21.0 [Cut a bunch for compactness] SENT: M105 READ: ok T:146.0 B:29.9 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:148.3 B:30.3 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:150.5 B:30.5 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:152.6 B:30.8 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:154.7 B:31.1 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:156.8 B:31.6 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:158.4 B:31.6 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:160.1 B:32.0 READ: Error: heating fault on heater 1, temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 1.2°C/sec SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:32.4 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:32.6 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:32.9 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:33.2
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2017 09:18PM by amellors.
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior January 31, 2017 02:28AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
That message occurs when you haven't run autotuning on the extruder heater, and the default heater model doesn't match your hot end very well. See [duet3d.com] and [duet3d.com].
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2017 02:29AM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2017 02:29AM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior January 31, 2017 10:05AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 9 |
I have run the M303 + M307 multiple times.
I always had to run it at M303 H1 P0.3 S240 (Since it seemed like P0.5 would drive it way too high & it would error out.)
I'll run it again, and post the results. (I'll also double check the resistance in the sensor now that that final wiring has been done.)
Could this be being caused by ambient being VERY low (it's like 16C in my basement)
Getting a new temp-sensor (E3D Volcano) in Thursday, I'll poke at it again then/over the weekend if I have time.
I always had to run it at M303 H1 P0.3 S240 (Since it seemed like P0.5 would drive it way too high & it would error out.)
I'll run it again, and post the results. (I'll also double check the resistance in the sensor now that that final wiring has been done.)
Could this be being caused by ambient being VERY low (it's like 16C in my basement)
Getting a new temp-sensor (E3D Volcano) in Thursday, I'll poke at it again then/over the weekend if I have time.
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior January 31, 2017 01:09PM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
It sounds to me that the gain (A parameter) in your M307 H1 command is too high for your heater. What gain did auto tuning report? Also run M307 H1 with no additional parameters to make sure that is the gain you are using.
One possible explanation is that the voltage reaching the RADDS from the PSU is dropping significantly when the bed heater is turned on, so the heat output is substantially less than when you ran auto tuning (presumably with the bed off). If you have a multimeter, measure the voltage reaching the RADDS with the bed heater both of and on.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2017 01:10PM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
One possible explanation is that the voltage reaching the RADDS from the PSU is dropping significantly when the bed heater is turned on, so the heat output is substantially less than when you ran auto tuning (presumably with the bed off). If you have a multimeter, measure the voltage reaching the RADDS with the bed heater both of and on.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2017 01:10PM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior February 01, 2017 08:13PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 9 |
I'm starting to think it's the sensor. It seems to drop off (Not open and not closed, just not there) more when the head is moving around or when I'm playing with it.
It doesn't seem to be a short, so un-sure of where the problem is.
Checked the voltage all through the heatup process and it was a steady 11.94V on both heated bed & Hotend until they started to ramp down as it got closer.
Just ran another M303 on the hot end, and got this:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2017 08:27PM by amellors.
It doesn't seem to be a short, so un-sure of where the problem is.
Checked the voltage all through the heatup process and it was a steady 11.94V on both heated bed & Hotend until they started to ramp down as it got closer.
SENT: M307 H1 READ: Heater 1 model: gain 538.2, time constant 228.7, dead time 11.9, max PWM 1.00, mode: PID READ: Setpoint change: P6.4, I0.028, D53.1 READ: Load change: P6.4, I0.224, D53.1
Just ran another M303 on the hot end, and got this:
SENT: M105 READ: ok T:239.6 B:17.6 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:240.1 B:17.8 READ: Auto tune of heater 1 with P=0.50 S=240.0 cancelled because temperature limit exceeded. Use lower P or higher S in m303 command. SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:17.9 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:17.6 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:17.8
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2017 08:27PM by amellors.
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior February 01, 2017 08:59PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 9 |
Reset the board & re.ran with P0.4, and got this result
Also note that the temp for the hotend disappeared once the tuning was complete. Is that intentional?
SENT: M105 READ: ok T:225.9 B:16.1 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:226.0 B:15.8 READ: Warning: Heater 1 appears to be over-powered and a fire risk! If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 567C. READ: Auto tune heater 1 with PWM=0.40 completed in 648 sec, maximum temperature reached 226.0C READ: Use M307 H1 to see the result SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:16.0 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:16.0 SENT: M303 READ: Heater 1 tuning succeeded, use M307 H1 to see result READ: ok SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:15.9 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:16.0 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:16.0 SENT: M307 H1 READ: Heater 1 model: gain 547.2, time constant 231.8, dead time 6.8, max PWM 1.00, mode: PID READ: Setpoint change: P11.1, I0.048, D52.9 READ: Load change: P11.1, I0.594, D52.9 READ: ok SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:15.8 SENT: M105 READ: ok T:B:16.2
Also note that the temp for the hotend disappeared once the tuning was complete. Is that intentional?
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior February 02, 2017 05:07AM |
Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 14,672 |
The gain and time constant are consistent between the two successful runs, but the dead time isn't. I suggest you use the shorter dead time value.
The temperature reading for the hot end stopped being reported when the hot end tool was deselected. Selecting it by sending T0 should restore it.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
The temperature reading for the hot end stopped being reported when the hot end tool was deselected. Selecting it by sending T0 should restore it.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior February 03, 2017 08:05AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 9 |
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Re: Odd Temp Sensor behavior February 03, 2017 09:39PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 9 |
Setup Volcano, including new temp sensor.
Worked great for M303 (although I got different results as kind of expected reset my M307 to M307 H1 A305.5 C85.1 D7.4 B0)
Was fine keeping temp while I adjusted Z-probe to deal with additional height.
Went to do first print & it was fine for ~4 layers (2mm worth of printing on a 3mm high calibration box) and then got temp faults while printing (Example attached)
Figured out that it was the fans coming on full blast on layer 2 & the heater couldn't keep up. Backed fans down to 50% and re-ran M303 with them running.
Seems to be working MUCH better now..
In the middle of printing my first benchy.. Lets see how it goes!
Worked great for M303 (although I got different results as kind of expected reset my M307 to M307 H1 A305.5 C85.1 D7.4 B0)
Was fine keeping temp while I adjusted Z-probe to deal with additional height.
Went to do first print & it was fine for ~4 layers (2mm worth of printing on a 3mm high calibration box) and then got temp faults while printing (Example attached)
Figured out that it was the fans coming on full blast on layer 2 & the heater couldn't keep up. Backed fans down to 50% and re-ran M303 with them running.
Seems to be working MUCH better now..
In the middle of printing my first benchy.. Lets see how it goes!
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