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New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China

Posted by vreihen 
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
December 20, 2016 02:08AM
Quote
xelad
I'm sure the cost he will be deducted would be peanuts compared to what people pay in the west for these boards,

Actually, just the raw cost of components for this board, which is the minimal amount that would be deducted here, is a significant fraction of the average salary in China. Being taken that amount from your salary would definitely hurt.
Like a lot of chinese controllers, this one is sold with a very low margin.
And I'm not sure I follow your logic : They are mean enough to unfairly take that amount away from the salary, but nice enough to make the amount as low as possible ? There's an inconsistency here.

Quote
xelad
China's lack of legislation to protect employee's is not a reason not to buy this board,

So your logic here is that there is no legal protection therefore one shouldn't care until there is ? Until there is legal protection against racism, racism is OK ? Or do you care less about Chinese people being treated this way than you would if they were your countrymen ?
No matter if there is legislation or not, the harm is present.
Plenty of Chinese companies do not act this way, choosing not to support companies that do, is definitely helping things.
And new legislation appears when people care, and are delayed by people not caring.
This is civism 101.

Quote
xelad
Im sure this behaviour is not limited to MKS only, by your logic buying anything from China is a big no no,

That's actually the opposite of what I was pointing out : If you are going to buy from China, don't buy from companies you know for sure act this way.

Quote
xelad
The board being closed source is a reason not to buy the board,

It actually is to many people.
It's fine if it's not to you, but lots of people actually care. Don't presume everyone is as cynical as you are.
We've got quite a few instances of people sending the boards back when they realized it didn't respect the original Open-Source project ( Because the Smoothie project is Open-Source, lots of folks don't even *imagine* the MKS could be anything but Open-Source )


Quote
xelad
but posting stuff like that makes you look slightly bitter i'm afraid.

I definitely am. And not slightly. If you thought you had unearthed some concealed feeling, to the contrary it is a very overt one.

But « Bitter » and « bitter with good reasons » are two very different things.

Bitter : « showing anger, hurt, or resentment because of bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment. »

MKS's treatment of their Smoothie project, and of the tens of thousands of hours of work from volunteers around the world, is definitely being felt as unjust by said volunteers. You know, the people who spent heaps of work giving you an awesome firmware instead of spending time with their family or friends. Your kind of reaction and uncaring attitude routinely discourages contributors from continuing to help.
MKS's boards wouldn't exist or sell without that volunteer work, yet they have absolutely no respect or recognition for it.
Several other companies release their design as Open-Source, contribute to and help the project. Buying from those companies that do not, like MKS, is actually depriving the project from that help, and slowing down progress.

If you get a MKS board, everything ( they did not create anything new ) you love about it ( and there will be a lot of that ), you are helping destroy by your purchase.

Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2016 02:18AM by arthurwolf.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
December 20, 2016 03:12AM
Quote
arthurwolf

Actually, just the raw cost of components for this board, which is the minimal amount that would be deducted here, is a significant fraction of the average salary in China. Being taken that amount from your salary would definitely hurt.
Like a lot of chinese controllers, this one is sold with a very low margin.
And I'm not sure I follow your logic : They are mean enough to unfairly take that amount away from the salary, but nice enough to make the amount as low as possible ? There's an inconsistency here.

Without some factual evidence i find it hard to believe there is such a small markup made on the boards, i was under the impression they are cheaply made and of poor design, this was the reason they undergone several revisions.

Quote
arthurwolf

So your logic here is that there is no legal protection therefore one shouldn't care until there is ? Until there is legal protection against racism, racism is OK ? Or do you care less about Chinese people being treated this way than you would if they were your countrymen ?
No matter if there is legislation or not, the harm is present.
Plenty of Chinese companies do not act this way, choosing not to support companies that do, is definitely helping things.
And new legislation appears when people care, and are delayed by people not caring.
This is civism 101.

Well actually there is legislation to protect against racism here in the UK, but even that does not stop racism.

So by your logic, you never buy Trainers, Clothes, iPhones, Android phones ETC anything that comes out of china before checking how their employees are treated? Of course not, it's just not feasible, MKS seem to be doing pretty well and they're sales are considerable so you COULD say that you are actually supporting the employees by providing revenue for the business - who ultimately pay their wages.

Quote
arthurwolf

That's actually the opposite of what I was pointing out : If you are going to buy from China, don't buy from companies you know for sure act this way.

We do not even know if that message is legitimate? What proof is there that they are not just trying to get back a board using the sympathy card?

Quote
arthurwolf

It actually is to many people.
It's fine if it's not to you, but lots of people actually care. Don't presume everyone is as cynical as you are.
We've got quite a few instances of people sending the boards back when they realized it didn't respect the original Open-Source project ( Because the Smoothie project is Open-Source, lots of folks don't even *imagine* the MKS could be anything but Open-Source )


This i have no argument for and totally understand, in my current situation if i could afford to stretch to a genuine smoothie board then i would - my MKS SBase was gifted to me but I would not be able to justify the extra cost when the MKS is available.

Quote
arthurwolf

I definitely am. And not slightly. If you thought you had unearthed some concealed feeling, to the contrary it is a very overt one.

But « Bitter » and « bitter with good reasons » are two very different things.

Bitter : « showing anger, hurt, or resentment because of bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment. »

MKS's treatment of their Smoothie project, and of the tens of thousands of hours of work from volunteers around the world, is definitely being felt as unjust by said volunteers. You know, the people who spent heaps of work giving you an awesome firmware instead of spending time with their family or friends. Your kind of reaction and uncaring attitude routinely discourages contributors from continuing to help.
MKS's boards wouldn't exist or sell without that volunteer work, yet they have absolutely no respect or recognition for it.
Several other companies release their design as Open-Source, contribute to and help the project. Buying from those companies that do not, like MKS, is actually depriving the project from that help, and slowing down progress.

If you get a MKS board, everything ( they did not create anything new ) you love about it ( and there will be a lot of that ), you are helping destroy by your purchase.

Whilst i totally agree with you, and infact appreciate and have a high amount of respect for all of the work that team Smoothie does, is this not a risk for all open sourced projects? Plenty of people make money from every single board & firmware that is open sourced in relation to the "maker industry".

There could be another view to hold here, is MKS not actually further helping to distribute Smoothieware as an easily available firmware? Isn't that one of the recommended missions you assign to board manufacturers who use smoothie?
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
December 20, 2016 03:48AM
Quote
xelad
Without some factual evidence i find it hard to believe there is such a small markup made on the boards, i was under the impression they are cheaply made and of poor design, this was the reason they undergone several revisions.

It's much easier to sell things with very low markups if you are a Chinese company, and lots of them have that as pretty much their whole business model.
Knowing components and production costs, they do sell with a fairly low margin yes.
Cheaply made and poor design is something that they do *too*, on top of the low margin ( which is fairly common really ), even though it doesn't save them large amounts.

Quote
xelad
So by your logic, you never buy Trainers, Clothes, iPhones, Android phones ETC anything that comes out of china before checking how their employees are treated? Of course not, it's just not feasible, MKS seem to be doing pretty well and they're sales are considerable so you COULD say that you are actually supporting the employees by providing revenue for the business - who ultimately pay their wages.

Again you have my logic backwards. I'm not saying one shouldn't buy anything from China, I'm saying one should avoid companies that are known or suspected to have those bad practices.
Other companies might have them without you knowing about it, but avoiding the ones you know or suspect have those bad practices, makes it more likely you will be purchasing from a company that doesn't.
Basic probabilities really smiling smiley


Quote
xelad
We do not even know if that message is legitimate? What proof is there that they are not just trying to get back a board using the sympathy card?

We don't know it is legitimate. It is very possible that is just MKS trying to steal from their customers ( you'll note they spam the forums all around about their product, but did not answer this ).
However : both options are very bad. They are either conning their customers, or mistreating their employees.
And, even if you don't know for sure they treat their customers badly, you should give your business to companies you don't have those suspicions about ( see above ).


Quote
xelad
This i have no argument for and totally understand, in my current situation if i could afford to stretch to a genuine smoothie board then i would - my MKS SBase was gifted to me but I would not be able to justify the extra cost when the MKS is available.

There's an argument to be made here that extra cost only means you have to be more patient until you have accumulated enough to get the board that doesn't hurt the project.
We live in a society where everyone expects to get everything immediately, but waiting is actually a valid alternative if it means doing the right thing. It's not like the price difference between the MKS and a non-project-hurting board is equivalent to the amount of money you will make between now and your death. If it were I would definitely understand. But you are going to make more money in your life, even if you don't make enough to get the board immediately, and that future money can be used to pay for the difference. Saying you can't justify the extra cost is really saying you don't care enough about doing the right thing to wait. If you have the choice to pay one, you have the choice to pay the other. It is a choice.

However so many people think like you it's pretty much a lost cause.

So we are working very hard on trying to design a low cost version of the Smoothieboard for the v2 series so that people with less monetary means can still get access to the Smoothie goodness without having to hurt the project in the process.
And MKS sales are hurting that effort. See the chicken/egg problem there ?

BTW : We pretty much live in a society that is designed in a way where *everyone* sees themselves as not having enough money ( which is why debt is so common ). People who make 10 times the money you do, no matter how much it is, will still see themselves as justified in buying the project-hurting board. And people who make much less than you do routinely make the effort of waiting to have enough to buy the project-supporting board. It's about choice and conviction.


Quote
xelad
Whilst i totally agree with you, and infact appreciate and have a high amount of respect for all of the work that team Smoothie does, is this not a risk for all open sourced projects?

Sure. It doesn't change the fact that the hurt is there and we should try to minimize it as much as possible. ( to go back to the racism thing, even if there is always a risk of people being racist, doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it )
And that users can, by choosing where they purchase, either hurt or help the project.

The fact that the risk is there doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't do anything about it.

There are bad people everywhere, just because they inevitably exist doesn't mean we should tolerate them.

Quote
xelad
Plenty of people make money from every single board & firmware that is open sourced in relation to the "maker industry".
There could be another view to hold here, is MKS not actually further helping to distribute Smoothieware as an easily available firmware? Isn't that one of the recommended missions you assign to board manufacturers who use smoothie?

Not only do their not contribute to the project in any way, not respect the work on the contributors, or the licenses. Not only do they take away sales that would *otherwise* in a large part go to helping the project make progress.
They also do not provide proper customer support which leads to the Smoothie community having to waste time doing it for them instead of spending that time making the project more awesome or helping users with problems they have with boards that do help the project.

It's an all around loss for the project. We actually feel it everyday, the Smoothie v2 project is late on existing mainly because of MKS, and when it comes out, we fear v3 might never happen because of them.

If your thinking is that them selling cheaper boards means more users, which is better for the project, that's also mistaken. The sales they take away from the several Open-Source Smoothie manufacturers ( who help the project ) are means that would otherwise be used to make cheaper ( and still Open-Source ) boards ( that would still help the project ). MKS is delaying the release of those boards, which would serve the purpose you think MKS serves.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2016 03:53AM by arthurwolf.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
December 29, 2016 01:54AM
Reading this topic prompted me to register so I could post a comment. I agree with arthurwolf, and from a community point of view there is no way of justifying buying from MKS, unless that is, the purchasers want to see the end of Smoothieboard. It might not end, but MKS purchases certainly don't help. MKS appear to take what open source material is available, go commercial, then claim they cannot release their information because someone might use (steal?) it. That's a bit rich IMO.

@Flyaway97, do you propose to rectify this situation (assuming it hasn't changed)? What is your proposal to support the community that developed the product from which MKS benefit? Selling something cheap to users does not count as support in my book. It takes away from the people who have worked to get Smoothieboard into existence.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
December 30, 2016 05:09PM
why people just jump on a thread just to cause agro this thread is for people who have a mks sbase, no disrespect too the smoothieboard there is no need to fill up a thread full of trolling, arthur has made it clear through all the rants blah blah blah, but its not helping no-one coming onto a thread for assistance from THOSE who do own a mk sbase to help others who have, when people just register to troll


Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
December 30, 2016 09:53PM
Has anyone had luck using dual extruders with this board ?
I am having an odd issue where I cant get the second thermistor to show up and it doesn't matter what pins I assign only extruder 1 will work. If I put extruder 2 pin assignment in 1 it will work. I have tried pronterface. Repetier and simplify 3d to control the board and they all have the same result. it is like there is no second extruder or thermistor. I have pasted my config here.
[pastebin.com]

It is driving me nuts. Would love to know if anyone has had luck with this.
ThanksMatt



Forget this post. I am such an idiot. I was working on this too late at night. Forgot to un comment all the lines. What a Knob!!!!!!hot smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2016 10:15PM by bigfella9811.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
December 30, 2016 11:12PM
Hello,

I just switched from Ramps and Repetier to the MKS and Smoothie. I've had a bunch of issues. Most have been resolved, but there are a couple of lingering issues I was hoping to get help with. I have a Prusa I3 clone. I'm having issues with endstops. Homing works fine. But if I kit the end stop it doesn't recognize to stop. Do I need to set this up as a limit switch? Also with Repetier, I was able to home and the have a homing offset. It is not working with Smoothie. For example, I tried to set alpha_min and move_to_origin_after_home to true. Nothing. The only way I get it to work is the do a Gcode command before slicing kicks in, but that offsets my part. The other issue I am having is with the extruder pausing during the print at random intervals. It will literally stop for a second or two while the print head moves. Then there are gaps. I'm not sure if that is a Slic3r issue. I'm running the latest stable dev version. Never had this problem with Repetier. It's not the current as I have tried 1 and 1.5 with the same result. I've attached a picture. Any help would be appreciated.
Attachments:
open | download - print small.jpg (114.1 KB)
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
December 31, 2016 12:33AM
Did you try the other extruder port? Maybe you have a cold solder joint on the E0 port?
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
December 31, 2016 10:27AM
I didn't think about doing that as my other z stepper is using that driver. I guess I can quickly put them in parallel to test the E1 driver. Thanks for the suggestion.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2016 10:28AM by mlaustin66.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
January 03, 2017 09:45AM
Something very peculiar happened today, after upgrading Smoothieware to the latest stable build (26 December 2016, master-27197b7) on an MKS SBASE v1.2.

The firmware seemed to update OK, but then any commands issued (move, extrude etc) via Octoprint were ignored, even though Octo was connected and the usual traffic was showing on its terminal. It was as if the config.txt hadn't been read.

I took out the SD card and had a look on my PC. The SDcard is completely unreadable - not even recognised (checked on another PC too). A quick trip to the shop, another SD card bought, firmware.bin (same version) and config.txt loaded. Still not working. A look at that card revealed the card reporting 31Mb spacen instead of 16Gb. Unable to retrieve the card using any utility.

A further SD card bought, the older firmware (Nov 16) added with a config.txt and downgrade succesful. All is back to normal.

Two SD cards wasted.

So my questions/comments are:

1. Has anyone experienced similar difficulties with the latest Smoothieware builds on MKS SBASE?

2. Has anyone go a clue as to what may have happened?

The SD cards are a right off BTW. One refuses to be detected (even in a camera) and the other reports a false 31Mb of unusuable space. Even a clean with DiskPart on Windows didnt help.

Thanks in advance.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
January 03, 2017 11:37PM
You can try to set the SD card to FAT32 format.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
January 04, 2017 09:14AM
Thanks flyway. I did all that. I even went a step lower to the partitions using diskpart - one SD is just unreadable and the other has a 31Mb partition that cant be deleted extended - I suspect its just a remnant shown by the damaged card.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
January 05, 2017 12:53AM
Quote

one SD is just unreadable and the other has a 31Mb partition that cant be deleted extended

There is a tool, I use frequently to erase my Linux partitions on RaspPi SD-cards: SDformatter V4. Maybe you can use it to get the SD-card back on track?

It's to big to attach it here, but there are plenty of trustworthy download portals out there.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
January 05, 2017 09:44AM
Thanks o_lampe. Yes, SDformatter4 was my second stop. It doesn't see one card at all (its totally dead) and cannot do anything with the 31Mb partition on the other.

I'm actually not worried about the SD cards, they are only a few pounds (in the UK), It's more the inconvenience, and the fact it happened twice with that Dec 26 firmware. I don't think it's a bad download, but at the moment I am not taking the risk and blowing yet another SD card.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has successfully put the latest stable or edge builds on an MKS SBASE v1.2? It would help restore my confidence.

Thanks all
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
January 07, 2017 02:38PM
I think I am someway to solving this problem with the SD card. It isn't firmware related, because it has happened again with the older firmware. I think there is a problem with the SD card holder contacts. Another SD card fried.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
January 14, 2017 01:38PM
Are these boards easy to setup for a corexy .
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
January 22, 2017 02:04PM
is ethernet working on v.1.3 ?
Do you need special firmware.bin?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2017 02:04PM by cmoegele.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
January 28, 2017 12:53PM
Hey so I'm getting the MKS SBase to use with my CoreXY build 'Im doing (see blog in signature). Well I'm wondering if anyone has gotten a BlTouch style of ZProbe. I know one end I attach to the ZMin endstop. I'm wondering where the servo end I attach to.. I'm assuming the pins on the top left of the board but i'm not sure. But obliviously I have the ZProbe options un-commented, do I need to do anything special for using the BLtouch??

I'm also attaching my config.txt file to my post so hopefully someone can sanity check me and make sure that i'm not missing anything or if I made a mistake.

Thanks Guys smileys with beer

BTW Ive been following this thread for a while now and this will be my first post here so yay lol ;p

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2017 01:04PM by drackeo112.

Check out my Fusebox CoreXY Build Blog: fuseboxbg.blogspot.com
Attachments:
open | download - config.txt (28.3 KB)
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
February 05, 2017 12:33AM
If someone knows where can be problem, if printing from sd card and 1 of 3 prints freezs after 1-2h of print, and shuts down all heaters (MKS Sbase 1.2v, mean well rsp-320w psu)?


ps: SELLING MY CUSTOM BUILD 3D PRINTER ON AUCTION IN EBAY.CO.UK

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2017 12:35AM by shteecers.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
February 05, 2017 02:49AM
Hey all.

I have recently bought the MKS Sbase v1.3 for my core xy.

I will be running dual extruders, and a 240v heated bed with a SSR running off the MKS.

My question is this, Is there any other 12v out other than the two extruders,heated bed, and fan output.

Or can I run the SSR off another Pin that can be used as the switch for the bed, and then use the heated bed output as a 12v out. Id like to connect LEDS, or a temperature enabled fan, but i dont have any other 12v out.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
February 11, 2017 05:46AM
Quote
wookie_666
Hey all.

I have recently bought the MKS Sbase v1.3 for my core xy.

I will be running dual extruders, and a 240v heated bed with a SSR running off the MKS.

My question is this, Is there any other 12v out other than the two extruders,heated bed, and fan output.

Or can I run the SSR off another Pin that can be used as the switch for the bed, and then use the heated bed output as a 12v out. Id like to connect LEDS, or a temperature enabled fan, but i dont have any other 12v out.

You can connect SSR to free GPIO pin on the board, check the board scheumatic which pin is it and set it in the config file.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2017 05:46AM by PartTimeRonin.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
February 20, 2017 03:02PM
ping ManniK

I saw this query you made last March:
[forums.reprap.org]

Did you ever get your inductive probe working?

I have the same kind, wired much the same way with slightly different resistor values.
It worked fine on my old RAMPS board.
It still works when tested independently: signal-to-ground measures about 3.9V normally; 0V when triggered.

I can't get MKS-SBASE to recognize it, no matter how I configure.

Any help?
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
February 20, 2017 05:43PM
you can change the endstop v jumper change from 3.3v to 5v and test. thank you
Attachments:
open | download - sbase.png (118.6 KB)
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
February 20, 2017 09:33PM
Ah... I forgot all about that.

How should I configure the zprobe.probe_pin value? 1.28v or 1.28^

When tested independently, voltage reads positive 3.9 volts on signal with respect to ground.

Unfortunately, I'm out-of-town for a week and won't be able to test immediately.

Thanks!
-Matt
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
February 22, 2017 11:03AM
ping flyway97,
I'd like to experiment with the TFT32 board.

Is the source code available?
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
February 22, 2017 06:17PM
Hi, you can find all the data about MKS TFT at [github.com] .
we will keep on develop the firmware, if have any suggest please send email to king@makerbase.com.cn.
but we can't provide the source code, we feel very sorry for that.
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
February 22, 2017 08:50PM
Thanks, I've seen the Github page.

To be clear, I'm not interested in the hardware design source files; just the firmware source. I would think that allowing others to develop alternative firmware for this device would only help drive your sales higher. What's the downside? Is there some other reason you can't release the source?

-Matt
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
February 25, 2017 03:26AM
Hi! I have scratch built Prusa P3 steel with these stepper motors:

Link.

I think these are higher inductancy motors, what do you think, can I use this board? No problem with inbuilt DRV8825? I'm using 24 V power supply.

Another request: Can share anybody a picture of main display with reprapdiscount full graphic LCD?

Thanks for help!
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
March 03, 2017 01:01AM
Hi,
Is the MKS SBASE 32-bit board compatible with dc42 reprap firmware ?
Re: New MKS SBASE Smoothieware-compatible board from China
March 04, 2017 05:05PM
if SmoothieBoard is, then it is. my logic...
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