Why are there no AT90USB1287 boards ?

I`m curious why there is no reprap printing board with a AT90USB1287 Chip-set on the market ?

pro`s:
Direct USB Support, no FTDI which slow`s down the communication, probably the most important advantage.
44 I/O`s compared to the 32 Pin`s of the 1284p, so enough for a 2nd Extruder and other stuff.
Up to 20mhz compatible, so 25% more Speed than actual 16mhz Boards
QFN package available, so a small board layout possible.
not much redesign necessary for a new board-layout, the firmware should also support it already.

con`s
Atmega 2560 has 86 I/O`s , but i don`t think they are really all necessary ?

combined with some DVR8825 and a board-layout like the printrboard (or even smaller when using the backside for components) this should give a priceworth and nice controllerboard ?

so for me the chips sounds ideal for most printing solutions atm. (maximum 2 FDM printhead`s), or do i miss something ?

Chri

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[chrisu02.wordpress.com] Quadmax Intel Delid Tools

Is the AT90* line supported by the Arduino IDE? Is it compatible with ATMega-based code?

Looking at the spec sheets, I noticed that the AT90USB1287 tops out at 128kb of flash memory. The ATMega2560 has 256kb. I know that some people's electronics may have enough pins for everything that they need to control, but they don't have enough memory to hold the program to run it all and have to sacrifice some to get it to fit.

The original sanguino with 664 only has 64kb ram, and with the 1284p it has 128kb and its also running all stuff like Display ect. when i compile a Marlin with display it actually uses about 110kb., repetier firmware uses below 80kb.
Also the AT90USB are already supported by Arduino IDE (reprap/marlin/Repetier), as the Printrboard has already the 16mhz version (AT90USB1286).

I was curisous because i installed marlin on a printrboard and was supprised how fast it will connect (instantly) and work.

Chri

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 02:49PM by Chri.

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[chrisu02.wordpress.com] Quadmax Intel Delid Tools

The AT90USB line might have been a good choice a few years ago, but it is still an 8-bit processor. The 32-bit ARM-core ATSAM processors are so inexpensive now that there is no longer any reason to use an 8-bit processor in a system as large as a 3D printer controller. Many of the ATSAM series have USB built in. Some have Ethernet as well, such as the ATSAM3X used in the Arduino Due (which sadly does not make the Ethernet interface available) and the Duet electronics for 3D printers (which does).

Personally I don't think using an Arduino core is a significant advantage. The Arduino IDE is awful compared to typical IDEs for C++, and while the Arduino core is very helpful for novices to microcontroller programming, it gets in the way when doing serious software development.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

hey, open your eyes...

http://reprap.org/wiki/Printrboard Atmel AT90USB1286 Microcontroller (or AT90USB1287 drop-in compatible for 20mhz support)
http://reprap.org/wiki/Teensylu also a AT90USB1286 (same as AT90USB1287, but 16mhz)
http://reprap.org/wiki/SAV_MKI also a AT90USB1286 (same as AT90USB1287, but 16mhz)

cdru, yip works fine in Arduino IDE, you have to add the cpu files, like you do for a 644p

NB these micros can't keep up with true usb speeds, but I agee is nicer than serial over usb implmentation that has baud rates.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 09:56PM by Dust.

Quote
dc42
The AT90USB line might have been a good choice a few years ago, but it is still an 8-bit processor. The 32-bit ARM-core ATSAM processors are so inexpensive now that there is no longer any reason to use an 8-bit processor in a system as large as a 3D printer controller. Many of the ATSAM series have USB built in. Some have Ethernet as well, such as the ATSAM3X used in the Arduino Due (which sadly does not make the Ethernet interface available) and the Duet electronics for 3D printers (which does).

Personally I don't think using an Arduino core is a significant advantage. The Arduino IDE is awful compared to typical IDEs for C++, and while the Arduino core is very helpful for novices to microcontroller programming, it gets in the way when doing serious software development.

i know that the Atmel is not so fast compaired to a 32 bit arm, but when i look to my Sanguino i can print with 400mm/s from SD-Card including a Panelolu2 so its still fast enough for the job, and most people are printing below 200mm/s , so i think the Atmel still has a lot of resources left and there are also no single board solutions that are small and inexpensive afaik.
Printing from USB over the FTDI from the sanguino is showing clearly that the connection can`t handle it, therefor i thought of the 1287 which is connected directly at very high speed.
It would be the same as with ramps when you use a Arduino Due, additional board cost, complete size very large, bulky to handle.
I mean a buddy of me already designed a small Oneboard solution some time ago only 45x80mm small, but based on the sanguino and has also only 4 steppers and all that FTDI troubles.
when i look at that board i think, at this size and also using the backside of the PCB for components (not the stepperdriver) there should be a way to make a really handy and nice solution which fits the most requirements today.

Quote
Dust
hey, open your eyes...

http://reprap.org/wiki/Printrboard Atmel AT90USB1286 Microcontroller (or AT90USB1287 drop-in compatible for 20mhz support)
http://reprap.org/wiki/Teensylu also a AT90USB1286 (same as AT90USB1287, but 16mhz)
http://reprap.org/wiki/SAV_MKI also a AT90USB1286 (same as AT90USB1287, but 16mhz)

cdru, yip works fine in Arduino IDE, you have to add the cpu files, like you do for a 644p

NB these micros can't keep up with true usb speeds, but I agee is nicer than serial over usb implmentation that has baud rates.

I already have a printrboard
And of course i know the teensylu, the SAV MKI is new to me but has only very less features.
Sure the printrboard is capable of a 20mhz cpu, thats why i was thinking about it, but no manufacturer is selling them with a 20mhz chip, all available Boards i found are with 16mhz.
and then there is the thing that they don`t use the additional i/o`s directly on the board they only have an additional expansion header.

Chri

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 12:35AM by Chri.

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[chrisu02.wordpress.com] Quadmax Intel Delid Tools

Quote
Chri
i know that the Atmel is not so fast compaired to a 32 bit arm, but when i look to my Sanguino i can print with 400mm/s from SD-Card including a Panelolu2 so its still fast enough for the job, and most people are printing below 200mm/s , so i think the Atmel still has a lot of resources left and there are also no single board solutions that are small and inexpensive afaik.

It depends on how you define small and inexpensive. The Duet board measures 100 x 123mm. It costs about the same as the Printrboard and has much the same features, plus the advantages of a 32-bit ARM-core processor and on-board Ethernet. Once you have used a web interface to control your printer, you will never want to go back to USB.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

100x123mm is very large, for example the sanguino has 100x50 mm, and is shouldn`t be larger i think otherwhise there may be some space troubles with small printers.
The Duet itself has also only support for 1 Extruder at stock, for this its not very expensive, thats true, but with the expansion board its also costs 200 euro here.

i would say 80 Euro (incl.) should be the upper limit for a single board solution that has all the features that 95% of the users need.
for sure things like Webserver more than 2 extuders, thermocouple and all that stuff is nice, but most people just don`t use that features.
From the feature set it should be about enough what RAMPs 1.4 can do, just with stronger mosfet to drive heatbed`s better.

i`m also a heavy user with printing, have four printers and developing lot`s of stuff, but i don`t like the webinterface, you have to ensure to have a network or change your networksettings when you are printing at other places where you don`t have network and so on, i`m just using printrun which has all the basic features and is not overloaded and when dual printing a other USB host software, even on my windows tablet ^^
especiall when i`m checking out printerspeed settings (jerk/acc/steppings) there is no other way than to use a display.

Chri

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2014 06:23AM by Chri.

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[chrisu02.wordpress.com] Quadmax Intel Delid Tools

I agree that the Duet would be even better if it supported dual extruders without the add-on board - I had to buy the add-on board just to support the second extruder and hot end.

I take your point about the USB interface being easier to configure then a web interface if you move your printer around, although you still need to have the correct USB drivers and control software on whatever PC or tablet you attach it to. However, most printers stay in the same place, or at least within range of the same wireless network; and the web interface is so much more functional than any USB control program I have seen, provides fast upload to the SD card, and needs only a browser on the PC.

I guess controlling the printer from a display provides ultimate portability, if you have ready-made gcode files on the SD card, I already have a full-graphics touchscreen display working with my Duet.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].