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Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.

Posted by DjDemonD 
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leadinglights
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 10, 2017 10:29AM
Quote
totalitarian
My bed is sat on 4 corner springs. Will this work with the under bed setup? I only ask because the PCB only has 3 piezo inputs...............

You can work with 4 corner springs But, and it is a big but, with 4 mounts the forces on the springs will mostly be trying to bend the plate, or bend the carriage and one of the adjusting nuts will likely be looser than the others. If you using sensors which have a very low compliance this is likely to make the slightly loose one too sensitive. Although the design may force you to have four mountings it is something to be avoided - like smoking or running with scissors - three mounts is much better.

Quote

Also, could we have a drilled piezo disc sandwiched between the the spring and the carriage or does it need a more elegant solution
?

Like this?

This arrangement works quite well with just a little caveat: Make sure that the drilled hole does not have burrs around the edge as this will make for some strange triggering

Mike

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2017 10:50AM by leadinglights.
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 10, 2017 11:05AM
I also have this design which is working well on a delta where the bed is stationary but seems a little too sensitive for a corexy where the bed is moving up and down.

[www.thingiverse.com]

although it should work where the bed moves in y as long as you use "wait before probing" delay around 0.5seconds, this is a new feature we requested and which has been merged into mainstream marlin.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2017 12:16PM by DjDemonD.

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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leadinglights
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 10, 2017 11:28AM
Hmmm! The message I get is :-
Quote

404

YOU HAVE REACHED THE END OF THE THINGIVERSE.
THERE IS NOTHING AWESOME HERE...

YET.

Mike
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Chowa
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 10, 2017 12:07PM
I have used a single piezo mounted in the center of the carriage plate connected to the V1.22 board using shielded wires from the piezo. My build plate is wider than it is deep and it has a type of foam, my insulation faced with aluminum foil. There was no lack of sensitivity I have a video of it homing and also doing a mesh bed level. Must have been sitting on horse shoes that day as the whole setup worked flawlessly. Will try to upload the video again as there were problems doing so. The FW was set to the previous sensor (BLTouch) a probe servo device which is now in the scrap bin.

Stef

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2017 12:12PM by Chowa.
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 10, 2017 12:17PM
Edited link try it now.

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 11, 2017 03:59AM
Just posting this to help someone out. This applies to marlin machines like Cr10.

Endstop settings

// coarse Endstop Settings
#define ENDSTOPPULLUPS // Comment this out (using // at the start of the line) to disable the endstop pullup resistors

#if DISABLED(ENDSTOPPULLUPS)
  // fine endstop settings: Individual pullups. will be ignored if ENDSTOPPULLUPS is defined
  //#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_XMAX
  //#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_YMAX
  //#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_ZMAX
  //#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_XMIN
  //#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_YMIN
  //#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_ZMIN
  //#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_ZMIN_PROBE
#endif

// Mechanical endstop with COM to ground and NC to Signal uses "false" here (most common setup).
#define X_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define Y_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define Z_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define X_MAX_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define Y_MAX_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define Z_MAX_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define Z_MIN_PROBE_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the probe.

This is what you see by default.

You need endstop pullups enabled for your other endstops (which are usually NC so need a pullup to switch) But the piezo PCB does not need a pullup (as its self powered) so make these changes:

// coarse Endstop Settings
//#define ENDSTOPPULLUPS // Comment this out (using // at the start of the line) to disable the endstop pullup resistors

#if DISABLED(ENDSTOPPULLUPS)
  // fine endstop settings: Individual pullups. will be ignored if ENDSTOPPULLUPS is defined
  #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_XMAX
  #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_YMAX
  #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_ZMAX
 #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_XMIN
 #define ENDSTOPPULLUP_YMIN
  //#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_ZMIN
  //#define ENDSTOPPULLUP_ZMIN_PROBE
#endif

// Mechanical endstop with COM to ground and NC to Signal uses "false" here (most common setup).
#define X_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define Y_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define Z_MIN_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define X_MAX_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define Y_MAX_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define Z_MAX_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the endstop.
#define Z_MIN_PROBE_ENDSTOP_INVERTING false // set to true to invert the logic of the probe.

So you uncomment the endstop pullups for everything except z_min and Z-min_probe. These are commented out i.e. not enabled.
You should also use "false" logic in most cases where using the piezo in NO mode (Piezo20 always uses this mode) Universal Piezo Kit PCB can use NC mode in which case use "True".

Hope this helps.

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 11, 2017 04:01AM
Also for those who have bought our new Piezo20 Self assembly kit I have done an All-in-one youtube video explaining how to assemble it:

[youtu.be]

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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Dancer
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 11, 2017 04:05AM
It was on page 15 and 16 of this thread, where I showed my solution. Here

I have a Delta with a square bed (because I had it at home) with 4 point fixing. - But I did not realy fix it :-)
It was about 2 month ago I did this modification, and I'm very happy with it. First Layer height of 0,1mm is no problem.

So again a special thanks for having the idea and developping it!
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totalitarian
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 11, 2017 04:48AM
Quote
DjDemonD
Edited link try it now.

Still broken
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totalitarian
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 11, 2017 04:51AM
Quote
leadinglights
Quote
totalitarian
My bed is sat on 4 corner springs. Will this work with the under bed setup? I only ask because the PCB only has 3 piezo inputs...............

You can work with 4 corner springs But, and it is a big but, with 4 mounts the forces on the springs will mostly be trying to bend the plate, or bend the carriage and one of the adjusting nuts will likely be looser than the others. If you using sensors which have a very low compliance this is likely to make the slightly loose one too sensitive. Although the design may force you to have four mountings it is something to be avoided - like smoking or running with scissors - three mounts is much better.

Quote

Also, could we have a drilled piezo disc sandwiched between the the spring and the carriage or does it need a more elegant solution
?

Like this?
[attachment 98709 Simplex_Annotated.png]
This arrangement works quite well with just a little caveat: Make sure that the drilled hole does not have burrs around the edge as this will make for some strange triggering

Mike

Thanks, 4 is what i've been given so i'll have to live with it for now. Yes that design was exactly what I was planning to do. Do you have a link to the pressure pads? Also what size piezo would you suggest?
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leadinglights
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 11, 2017 05:12AM
Quote
totalitarian
...................

Thanks, 4 is what i've been given so i'll have to live with it for now. Yes that design was exactly what I was planning to do. Do you have a link to the pressure pads? Also what size piezo would you suggest?

I will see if I can run up a modified STL from the one I use with the parallel mechanism - the ones I tried are ones I turned on a lathe. I will try to put the file up and add it onto the Thingiverse thing later today. 27mm piezo is best and if available Murata piezo is more predictable on output and polarity than no-name ones. Part no. is 7BB-27-4LO

Mike
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totalitarian
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 11, 2017 05:24AM
Much appreciated!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2017 05:25AM by totalitarian.
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leadinglights
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 11, 2017 10:57AM
STLs on [www.thingiverse.com]

Mike
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coredump
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 13, 2017 02:54PM
Hello!

So I got the Piezo20 board (and as I check the website and see that they are all gone I realize that I may have been lucky!) and am thinking on how to add them to my D-bot/titan aero mount.

There are some mounts for the titan aero/dbot carriage on thingiverse [1], but I am drawing a blank on a way to add a piezo somewhere. My toughts:

  • I can add a plate under the motor for something like this [www.thingiverse.com], but the aero has a pretty tight mount with that plate between motor/extruder and I am unsure if there would be enough flex
  • I can try to add something on the plate between motor/extruder, but there's the motor shaft there and I would prefer not to have to drill. Maybe offset the piezo up?
  • finally I can go bananas and put a plate on top of the extruder mount? But then again the piezo will be horizontal.

I am trying to use a 27mm disk, but I have 20s too. Has anyone contemplated the same situation or can give a better idea? Thanks!


1:
[www.thingiverse.com]
[www.thingiverse.com]
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 13, 2017 03:11PM
Hi,

I have a titan/aero bracket design for piezo its here:
[www.thingiverse.com]

And a different idea which is very much a beta, I have one on my corexy its working okay:
[www.thingiverse.com]

Search piezo in thingiverse for everything piezo related.
[www.thingiverse.com]

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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coredump
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 13, 2017 03:14PM
Quote
DjDemonD
Hi,

I have a titan/aero bracket design for piezo its here:
[www.thingiverse.com]

And a different idea which is very much a beta, I have one on my corexy its working okay:
[www.thingiverse.com]

where did you add that? On the back of the motor? It's not really possible in my case because there's nowhere to attach unless I move the motor to the front, what I am afraid of unbalancing stuff.

Quote

Search piezo in thingiverse for everything piezo related.
[www.thingiverse.com]

I've been doing that, but still not a lot out there.
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coredump
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 13, 2017 03:15PM
Quote
DjDemonD
Hi,

I have a titan/aero bracket design for piezo its here:
[www.thingiverse.com]

And a different idea which is very much a beta, I have one on my corexy its working okay:
[www.thingiverse.com]

where did you add that? On the back of the motor? It's not really possible in my case because there's nowhere to attach unless I move the motor to the front, what I am afraid of unbalancing stuff.

Quote

Search piezo in thingiverse for everything piezo related.
[www.thingiverse.com]

I've been doing that, but still not a lot out there.
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OutcastZeroOne
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 13, 2017 03:31PM
I'm going to have to keep an eye on this. I really like the concept of this and hope to incorporate it into my machines and a custom CoreXY I am designing.

I'll have to read this thread in more detail, 23 pages is a bit much for my lunch break tongue sticking out smiley
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 13, 2017 05:00PM
Quote
coredump
Quote
DjDemonD
Hi,

I have a titan/aero bracket design for piezo its here:
[www.thingiverse.com]

And a different idea which is very much a beta, I have one on my corexy its working okay:
[www.thingiverse.com]

where did you add that? On the back of the motor? It's not really possible in my case because there's nowhere to attach unless I move the motor to the front, what I am afraid of unbalancing stuff.

Quote

Search piezo in thingiverse for everything piezo related.
[www.thingiverse.com]

I've been doing that, but still not a lot out there.

Yes, so I remove 2 of my motor bolts (don't take all four out) and then screw in from behind the motor. If you're using a 20mm stepper then it doesn't add much flexibility to the whole assembly. My x-carriage on that printer sits on a linear rail so its pretty stiff, but this does work. What you can't do is do the bolts between the carriage and motor, which runs through the piezo plate, really tight as this will reduce the usable range of tune for the system, you don't want them really loose either, as I said its really not well developed just something I thought I'd try and it worked first time, it needs a bit of work.

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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jebk
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 14, 2017 01:19PM
Hello!
My kit arrived yesterday, and like a lemon I didn't realise you don't have a part for the 27mm piezo with a groovemount. Not a problem making one up, but i wondered if you had come up with a non destructive way to mount/remove the sensor for testing when using something like the titan aero mount?
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 14, 2017 02:15PM
So you are planning to use a titan/aero bracket like this one?
[www.thingiverse.com]

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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jebk
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 14, 2017 02:32PM
Quote
DjDemonD
So you are planning to use a titan/aero bracket like this one?
[www.thingiverse.com]
No, I'm using a Bowden setup on Tronxy X5S (cheap corexy from china) mount is similar to a CR10. It's probably more straightforward to just get a 20mm sensor and use the groovemount, but I'm a sadist.

Just wondering if you've found a way to temporarily mount the sensors for testing rather than supergluing.
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 14, 2017 02:36PM
The bracket type mount like I listed above needs supergluing, but the sensors on Piezo20 (https://www.precisionpiezo.co.uk/product-page/piezo20-drop-in-z-probe-sensor) modules don't need to be glued in, they sit in a recess in the unit. I might have mentioned putting a drop of glue on them in one of my videos but I rarely ever do these days. The module is better developed.

The only design where glue is critical is the titan/aero bracket I linked to above, without it the piezo won't bend with the contact of the nozzle onto the bed. Let me know if this makes sense, it sounds slightly to me like you might be confusing the two ideas.. apologies if not but I'd rather iron it out now than after you spend many hours possibly getting nowhere. smiling smiley

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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jebk
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 14, 2017 02:46PM
Sorry yes, I'm not making myself super clear I realise. The piezo20 type screw/groovemount won't work with the 20mm sensor I have, and scaling to fit will probably take up more space than I want to use.

The plan was to build something similar to the titan mount but just as a flat plate with the hotend mounted to the front, however I assume that might need some work to get the right amount of deflection in the bracket to trigger the sensor. H
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 14, 2017 03:05PM
Let us know and please share if you come up with a novel design, we're giving away free kits to anyone who can demonstrate and share a working design which can achieve the same accuracy (0.01mm) and deviation (0.007mm) as our standard designs do.

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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OutcastZeroOne
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 14, 2017 03:42PM
So I am thinking of doing a vertical mount of the piezo on my custom CoreXY and mount my Nimble and hotend on a bolt on bracket that will pivot at the base of it. Would it be reasonable to use a dot of silicone on the back of piezo to help secure it?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2017 03:43PM by OutcastZeroOne.
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 14, 2017 04:19PM
Sure if you're only using it to keep it in place during assembly it's not a problem.

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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OutcastZeroOne
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 14, 2017 09:11PM
ill see if i can draw up a model of my idea and get your expert opnion on it
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coredump
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 15, 2017 03:04AM
So I am taking a shot on putting kinda the design you have on Thingiverse with what I need. So far I have got this:





(Ignore the weird mockups, I am not very good at this cad thing apparently).

I am trying to use a 27 mm to compensate for, what I think will be, less strength being passed from tha tthick plate in the middle to the motor.

I will try to finish assembling my printer so I can finally start testing some of that stuff, but I did some mutlimeter tests and looks promissing.

The other possibility would be to use the spacer between the motor and the extruder with a lever like system to bend a piezo in the middle. I will throw some mockups of that too tomorrow.
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DjDemonD
Re: Precision Piezo Z-probe Now available.
October 15, 2017 03:34AM
I'm not sure that'll work as you have it there when you push up on the nozzle you might not bend the piezo. The bracket design relies on being mounted at 90 degrees to the extruder. You might be able to adapt my plate design, the only issue being it works between motor and carriage but not between motor and extruder as there isn't space for the piezo.

Simon Khoury

Co-founder of [www.precisionpiezo.co.uk] Accurate, repeatable, versatile Z-Probes
Published:Inventions
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