[AutoBed Levelling] New prespective

Quote
Treito


But for first commisioning and first print results if you are new into 3D printing ABL is a great help or do you think you (grand-) parents would be able to use an I3 by themselves?

I will get my parents to try my Prusa i3 this summer when they visit. In fact I'll take them down to the Hackspace and give them a training session like I do for those members wanting to use the 3D printers there (Tinkerine Ditto Pro and Prusa i3)

So it seems there are two wider issues:

1) do non-geeks want 3d printers? and if not is it because they have no utility for them, or is it because they're frightened they won't be able to get them to work?
2) If they do want them - how do you make a cheap, "prints-out-of-the-box" printer, as the Cubicon proves you can make one and retail it for $2500, but thats not the price point for a consumer printer.

I'd like to think that everyone will want a 3d printer and make full use of it in 10 years time, but I'm not so sure. Not everyone has a 2d printer now, they just go to a print shop, public library etc when they want to print something, despite 2d printers being available for $40 brand new (accepting that ink cartridges are then $60 each after that).

Is this because 3d printers just haven't captured the public's imagination - I think they have. Most people have heard of them and seem to be generally in awe of the idea. Not many people realise you can buy one for $300. I spoke to someone this weekend who commented on a 3d printed object I had with me and asked me if the printers cost $2000 each? Market research is needed. I am worried what will happen is Apple with make one, everyone will love an think Apple invented them and well all have to buy i-filament from now on.

Quote
DjDemonD
I like the idea and the passive nature of it is good also. I think you can calculate a plane using the method you have proposed. I do not know how easy or quick it will be to build as you have to calibrate this mechanism somehow.

However whilst the potentiometers will be cheap, the dead flat base will not be. Nothing that is nearing truly flat i.e. tooling plate is cheap. Also if you go to the trouble of buying the dead flat plate why not print onto it? Why not build a machine that is orthogonal to the dead flat tooling plate?

You also need to consider that by using sensors you can do more than just calculate a plane. Some Marlin versions (and other firmwares I am sure) will calculate a full bed height map. So you can compensate for an uneven bed as well as a tilted bed. This will be of even more use for the consumer printer, since it will give good first layers even if the customer doesn't clean the build plate etc...

I think you have potentially a good idea, but whether it solves a problem that actually exists I do not know.

Thanks for the critical feedback. I agree to my shortsightedness! Now I just noticed something. In the current ABL the reference is the X-axis from the printer and the distance of the bed at different point is calculated from there. Exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to do.
Hey, check this out [www.kickstarter.com]
I'm a big fan of Tiko BTW... I really hope they ship it on time. Anyway, scroll down you can see a flexible Accelerometer that they are using in the extruder assembly! No idea why! But I tried to look for an accelerometer like that one and couldn't. Very interesting.

@SteveRoy I don't see anything wrong with moving Z axis. I mean as long as it's well calculated and properly maintained; it works. For the example you mentioned, Yes sure I agree. There are ways to get things done properly and rarely adjust the bed. But the discussion now is about how making the adjustment COMPLETELY unnecessary. At least that what I've had in mind.

@Treito What I've in mind is pushing the technology to a maturation point where they can. Optimally you'd be able to SPEAK to your printer, ask it to make a copy of an object and the printer receives the object form you and duplicate it in 20mins. No CAD, No ABL, No Hassles; Grandma level! Actually with Houndify [www.soundhound.com] currently on the web, this doesn't seem far away!

@The_Digital_dentist same thing here. Push the technology so it reaches people who are farthest apart from it. Don't ask them to adjust to it. 3D printing can bring value to household lives if done well. Or So I believe.

Quote
DjDemonD
So it seems there are two wider issues:

1) do non-geeks want 3d printers? and if not is it because they have no utility for them, or is it because they're frightened they won't be able to get them to work?
2) If they do want them - how do you make a cheap, "prints-out-of-the-box" printer, as the Cubicon proves you can make one and retail it for $2500, but thats not the price point for a consumer printer.

I'd like to think that everyone will want a 3d printer and make full use of it in 10 years time, but I'm not so sure. Not everyone has a 2d printer now, they just go to a print shop, public library etc when they want to print something, despite 2d printers being available for $40 brand new (accepting that ink cartridges are then $60 each after that).

Is this because 3d printers just haven't captured the public's imagination - I think they have. Most people have heard of them and seem to be generally in awe of the idea. Not many people realise you can buy one for $300. I spoke to someone this weekend who commented on a 3d printed object I had with me and asked me if the printers cost $2000 each? Market research is needed. I am worried what will happen is Apple with make one, everyone will love an think Apple invented them and well all have to buy i-filament from now on.

Absolutely agree with everything you said!
Especially the Apple part! Although I'm a fan! heheheh

I always said that 3D-printers should be suitable for a wide range of users and not only for us geeks. Also I am not okay with throwing mostly printers away only because of a bed leveling.
However in theory my printers only would need one adjustment for ABL, but the values are not written by themselves into the configuration file so I have to to ABL each time at startup, but I am okay with that.
As I read and understood here even the stable beds needs a recalibration every 3 month. A good recalibration is not done very quick. If you would do your job fine you will need some sort of dial gauge. What if you have to do a quick print job?
My opinion is that everybody should try to level the bed by hand as good as possible and as good as the person could do, but there should be a suitable ABL option for finetuning or if the manual leveling fails.
I have no problem with the guys who buy a printer only to print their Yodas for example. Why not? At least it helps the 3D printing industry as the filament may get cheaper for example.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Having a z probe such as an inductive/capacitative sensor/IR sensor can be used as a tool for manual bed levelling. I go to each of the four corners on my corexy and do g30 and then adjust the levelling screws. The sensor is giving accurate height readings. The bed is flat and I can print across the whole bed without running g29. I've never used a dial gauge - I am sure there's much to commend them, but its another piece of kit to buy, own and learn to use when I have a sensor for $5 which can do the same thing and achieve the same result.

I didn't use a dial gauge either. I used my IR-z-probe in the past, too as it got more accurate readings as the bed was better leveled. But if you want to do it correctly you have to use a tool like a dial gauge.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

An update - this year I looked after the VHS booth at Vancouvers "Mini Maker Faire". Friday I arrive at VHS, take the Prusa i3 out of it's enclosure and put it in the van wit the rest of our stuff. Head down and setup the booth. Power on the i3, load some filament and print from the SD card, didn't bother to check z height etc. Prefect print and no adjustment needed.
We printed either tree frogs or yoda heads (yeah I know DD) to give away all weekend. The printer was doing approx 40 minute prints for over 8 hours a day for 2 days with no adjustment needed. Over the weekend we used 3 different colours of filament - no adjustment or checking done between changes.
Sunday night we broke down the booth, loaded the printer into a members car and it was taken back to the Hackspace. When I got down there the following Tuesday a member had just put the printer back into it's enclosure and started a test print from the SD card - without having to tram the bed. Printed fine. He sliced his model and continued printing without needing to check the z height.
This is what is possible with a well built printer.

I've been transporting my machine on its side in my car for a couple years without having to adjust the bed level. A couple months ago in preparation for moving the machine to the Makerspace, I took the tool-free leveling stuff (springs and thumb wheels) out. One thing I learned from previous experience at the Makerspace is that people can't resist the urge to turn a thumbwheel! The machine has been at the space for most of the last three months without needing any adjustment.

---

Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]