Anyone Have BotMill Feedback?

Well, just to let you inform about my order at Botmill.
Another month has passed and still no printer. Shaan and Fred, with whom I had Emails keep telling me that my machine is in progress, and they are working hard to make perfect printers. I should remain patient...
It's been 3 months since they cashed my money!! This is definitly not okay.

If you ordered an Axis, something is going on there. I ordered mine in the middle of May and then told them I wanted to cancel because the reprap community convinced me that I should selfsource. It was true. I was planning on doing a selfsource. So then the reply I got from them was that my printer was going to ship the very next day and do I really want to cancel. I said, "no. That's fine. You can keep the order." I figured it would save time versus a selfsource. So then it arrived a few days later. I've got it mostly put together now. Unfortunately its not so much a complete kit as I hoped. The plastic parts were great, which was the previous complaints. But the endstops they sent didn't work because I had to solder a connection on each one. Support was unaware of this and told me not to solder anything, but that email came after I got them working. The wades extruder doesn't exactly follow the reprap wiki and BotMill doesn't have anything to explain it except their support emails as far a I could see. Hooking up the motors and electronics they sent to the power supply they sent (12v 5a) and the power supply kept resetting because it was overloaded, so I had to go buy a new power supply for it. I've been to radio shack twice, special ordered from a local fastener supply once, went to a PC store once, two trips to home improvement stores, and placed two online orders for parts so far trying to finish off the printer. Good news is that I extruded some plastic last night.

So if I were to do it over again I would have canceled the order and self sourced. I was worried that I would buy parts that were incompatible with each other, but i feel that BotMill isn't putting together kits that are complete or compatible either and not really saving time for the added cost. Just my feelings after having gone through it. I was hoping I would be able to come on here and say that BotMill had their act together, but I'm not sure why I wanted to do that. Maybe the smell of fresh plastic when I opened the kit. I was debating posting this. I'm not trying to cost them business. And I should say that I haven't asked them to send parts for any of the stuff that I bought elsewhere. So they didn't force me to buy those things. But when I compared going to a PC store for a powered supply TODAY compared to sending an email about it resetting and then waiting for a reply and possible shipment... I've got spare cash and don't want to wait.

My Botmill Glider ("plug n print" model - no building or calibration required!) arrived yesterday, and apparently I should have searched this forum before purchasing it. I'm having trouble understanding how they could knowingly ship this to me.

The x axis is not square. The right side is almost an inch higher, i.e. it's seriously misaligned on the z-axis screws.

The print platform is loose - almost .5" play around center and 1/4" up and down. How can this provide accuracy?

One of the Z-axis belt guides underneath is so far out of alignment with the others that the belt twists sideways and barely even touches the bearing. The z-axis doesn't move at all and instead makes a bad grinding noise (won't try that again.)

The z-axis motor is mounted with one bolt. I can move it around, and the belt is very loose.

The x-axis belt is also twisted and rubbing against the guide washers, as it appears the motor pulley is wrong or perhaps the motor is mounted wrong. It's not aligned with the belt guides like the other motor pulleys and pushes the belt downward.

I've found 4 lock nuts around the extruder that look like they were spun on a few threads by hand but never tightened. The bolts are loose.

The extruder trolley is loose and some of its roller bearings don't even touch the rod. Same with the right-side z-axis rod.

I don't see how it could have been calibrated as the tin plates were no where near the optical sensors, not to mention the other problems.

Shaan from Botmill personally emailed me at one point in April saying that my Glider would be calibrated, and "a perfect machine." Their words and the pretty website are one heck of a honeypot. :-(

I've contacted them about returning the machine for a refund.

So. I finally got the machine the other day and I'm not quite sure how it happened, but the build plate slid under the circuitry panel and got stuck, which caused a bit of an issue. I'm honestly not sure if it's Botmill's incompetence or I screwed the pooch here but in any case I'm decidedly less than satisfied. I'm also not sure what's up with the extruder, I get it heated up to temp but the plastic won't melt down or go through it at all. I wanted a prebuilt machine since I'd have trouble with the assembly myself but now I'm not really sure what to do with it, in any case I feel that I've definitely been burned.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2011 10:03PM by ClockworkNinja.

It certainly sounds sh**y, but there are people who can help, reprappers.

Equip yourself with a camera,a flickr account and get onto IRC. Post some images of the problems you are having. People are friendly and helpful and you certainly should be able to get a working printer out of it, some day. It may require replacement parts which people can print for you.

IRC: [webchat.freenode.net]

Certainly true about the iRC chat, I love going there to ask questions which are urgent.

So all you botmills were meant to be more than just consumers of the product, now you can become the engineers! yay!

yydoctt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It certainly sounds sh**y, but there are people
> who can help, reprappers.
>
> Equip yourself with a camera,a flickr account and
> get onto IRC. Post some images of the problems you
> are having. People are friendly and helpful and
> you certainly should be able to get a working
> printer out of it, some day. It may require
> replacement parts which people can print for you.
>
> IRC: [webchat.freenode.net]

The problem is I'm not very mechanically inclined, since I do better on the design side. I could probably fumble my way through and figure it out eventually but that's why I wanted to go pre-built to begin with. Me trying to fix it would likely be about as awkward as a virgin figuring out the best way to remove a bra.

Well...........
We placed our order for a Glider , and some PLA , 7-8 weeks ago , and have seen nothing so far.
Be advised that they may charge your c/c shortly after your order is placed - in our case about
one week after ordering.
They did respond to a couple of my e-mail inquiries a couple of weeks ago , and actually said that
the order was packaged and ready to ship , but we STILL have not received it .
And , they have not replied to my last two mails....
So , we are at 8 weeks now , and do not have any freakin' idea as to what's happening with our
(long ago paid for) parts.
I have been buying supplies for NASA for 4-5 years now , and this has now become the worst experience
with a supplier that I've EVER had .
And that's saying something...lemme' tell you.
I am not really familiar with "Techzone" , but I would have to reccommend that you purchase from ANYONE but BotMill.
Wish that I'd stumbled upon this Forum before I was directed to purchase from these clowns.
Caveat emptor....!!!!!!!!!!

please dont purchase from techzone as they are not fully established yet either. Ive had issues you can go to the huxley part of this forum for those issues since I dont want to annoy everyone again with my blabber.

If your looking for a nice easy kit, stick with makerbot as everyone has thsoe and noone complains about them. or makergear.

owism8 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> please dont purchase from techzone as they are not
> fully established yet either. Ive had issues you
> can go to the huxley part of this forum for those
> issues since I dont want to annoy everyone again
> with my blabber.
>
> If your looking for a nice easy kit, stick with
> makerbot as everyone has thsoe and noone complains
> about them. or makergear.


Sorry for the out of topic here, just wanted to moderate a bit your comment on Techzone products.

Sure their kits seems far from plug-and-play, perhaps not even "full", and might need a lot of work to be put to production, but that's not a reason to stop people from buying it.

A simple warning like "only buy this if you can fix some issues by yourself" would be enough. I've not finished building my techzone Huxley yet, but I learnt a lot in the process already.

DeuxVis in all fairness owism8 is speaking from personal experience and giving his advice.
There are a LOT of unhappy customers of techzone and it is perfectly reasonable to advise others from buying from them.
You have bought one of the better kits (if you bought a mendel you would not have written your post - from what I hear ), but still its unreasonable to sell a "complete" kit that you have to work so hard to correct, and spend additional money for. It is therefore not as advertised in a similar respect to the botmill feedback. If anything techzones reputation is worse, and more deserved that botmills.

I totally agree on owism8 being right to publish his feeling and experience about the product he bought - other potential users deserves the information return before making their choice.

Don't get me wrong, I don't defend techzone - the way they describe their product as a full working kit is far from accurate in my opinion too. I just feel a little embarrassed that he is posting it in so many different places - starts to sound like techzone bashing a bit, maybe more driven by bad feelings than logic.

To sum up my idea : it's fine, just don't spam

Thanks for the allowance. I'll stop "bashing now". I just want newbees to have a good picture of the reprap business market out there.

Anyways. I just hope others can start companies now which will help newbees to get more into this than away from.

I do also appreciate every bit of learning which came out of this troubleshooting experience. Its sort of like how I know so much about Windows machines and PC's because windows crashes all the time. And thats why I have a Mac now

Lol

Well i got my huxley to work after fixes, so if you need advice how to get it running, check out my blog: www.omemon.wordpress.com

Also if anyone upgraded the huxley firmware to accomodate SF41, please point me to those instructions. I just contacted techzone about that.

Cheers

My BotMill experiences so far:

- Website was not able to accept my address, I was unable to place my order
- After I made an bugreport, Gil contacted me, that he will process my order via e-mail
- I ordered the Axis 2.1 DIY kit
- Gil told me, it is not a probem, and I should pay it via PayPal
- Because my PayPal account was in a bad shape, i was needed some time to fix it. I offered to Gil, to not wait this I will simply make a bank transfer to pay.
- Gil told me, that they want not give away bank account information (what? its an account number only. Are they afraid of something? For example angry customers?) he sent me a PayPal invoice, about 'goods'. (Hmm... This way is harder to sue in the court later, or what? Goods can be anything, not necessary a 3d printer)
- So we waited until i fixed my PayPal account, an I made the payment.
- Gil told me, that i can expext my package within two (!) weeks.
- Two weeks passed. Of course nothing happened.
- I wrote an e-mail, what is the status of my order
- Another administrator (Shaan) answered me that he will check my order in the production room.
- Two days passed. Nothing happened.
- I wrote an other e-mail, to Shaan, what is the status.
- Shaan replied, that my order is in the waiting list for processing. (Great. Within two weeks at my door. After more than 3 weeks)
- I told them, that this is disappointing.
- Shaan apologized, and told me, that they are very busy, etc. He asked me, to let him know if i have further questions.
- I had. Because my order was not completed (and niether started) i made a question, what about to change the order for the Axis 2.1 PLUS kit, which appeared in the shop while i awaited my order.
- Shaan routed me with this to Fred. (! third administrator)
- I wrote an e-mail to Fred, that i want change the order, and I suppose i must pay only the difference 130$.
- Without any answer, i received a PayPal invoice about 130$.
- After this I looked for other people experience about BotMill. I found this forum thread.
- I cursed.
- I wrote them, that first of all i pay nothing. If they dont deliver within 2 weeks, i want all my money back.
- Shaan answered me, that they will send me a message, if the order is ready for shipment. (of course)

Here i am with BotMill. I will post the sequel to the list.
They can come out from this good, if they want.

Ordered a PTFE barrel and brass nozzle since the last one they sent me broke already. No confirmation emails from botmill, just the invoice from paypal. Emailed them asking fro updates.

RT if you've had problems with @botmill #botmill. Read this forum-[tinyurl.com] #reprap #makergear #fablab #3dprinter #3dprint

---

-John, San Diego, CA

www.youtube.com/user/GeoDroidJohn

MrJohnEcker on Twitter, Gmail

So glad I found this thread BEFORE I ordered anything from anywhere so I seriously want a 3d printer and only started reading up on this last night. Anyone want to help me with a source for parts, maybe a finished machine I can buy?

Signed
A total noob
Thanks

I have a number of finished prusa-ish machine available (has a number of my design enhancements). It has lm8uu linear bearing x and y carriages. 1600W removable glass on aluminium heated build platform, RAMPS electronics, stainless steel frame and smooth rods, adjustable z couplers (to remove z wobble). All steel hotend. Belt tensioning system. Accessible Wades filament pusher. Multiple colours available. Make me an offer.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2011 04:47PM by Greg Frost.

Cool! Where are you located? I am not sure what a fair offer would be.

The last full reprap I saw sold on eBay for $1400.

Thats in the ballpark.

Botmill received my Glider the Thursday before last, and on Friday suggested that they wished to send me a check for the refund. I'll update again if I receive it.

What's wrong with Paypal refund?

Or bank transfer?

I just ordered one last week for work. I ordered the Glider because I need one that is fully assembled, tested and ready to go. While I'm not holding my breath after reading this thread, I am going to hold out hope that it gets here in just that shape. Our budget for a 3D printer was limited and I don't have the time to build up a kit. Rest assured, if it arrives on time and in the promised condition, I will be singing the praises of BotMill everywhere (and I have a HUGE audience who will listen).

ChrisDotson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>I will be singing the
> praises of BotMill everywhere (and I have a HUGE
> audience who will listen).


Nice try, hopefully they fall for that

DeuxVis: Are you laughing as hard as I am?

ChrisDotson: If you needed one for work, but don't have time to build a kit, who's going to have time to maintain it? At some point it's going to break. Are you assuming that there will be free time to fix it when it breaks?

taraba Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChrisDotson: If you needed one for work, but don't
> have time to build a kit, who's going to have time
> to maintain it? At some point it's going to break.
> Are you assuming that there will be free time to
> fix it when it breaks?

Maintaining it isn't the issue. I don't have the time to put into building a EV car, but I can certainly maintain one. The issue is spending weeks or a month trying to get the thing to work right, at the same time trying to convince my boss and his boss that it really WAS worth the investment. If it works, I'll have all the support I need to maintain it or possibly even go up to a more professional machine. If it doesn't work, then the mentality will be "All 3D printers must have this problem."

I came here looking for some constructive input on BotMill and their products. Unfortunately, the order was placed before I found this forum. Can I expect some factual information on BotMill or just snide remarks and jeering? If you hate the company or their products, tell me why. Otherwise, myself and others like me will continue to support them when they should be left to go out of business.

I you just wanted to find out if a fused deposition modeling 3D printer would work for your application, then you could have saved a lot of time and money by just sending your design to one of the online service providers who can print them for you and get it back to you in less than a week. I have used Stratasys and I have been satisfied with their service. I'm sure there are others that are cheaper.

Buying a Botmill printer is not the best way to answer this question. It may or may not work. If you read this whole thread and the rest of the forum, you will find plenty of constructive input, including my own, on why you shouldn't have ordered from them and why you should cancel the order. You can expect your credit card to be charged within a week, delivery to be late, replies to inquiries to slow down once they have your money, and not to get what was promised. That was my experience. In my case, I was lucky that the parts were of high quality even though it was poorly assembled so I was able to redo it and make it work well. Others in this forum was not so lucky. If you want a finely tuned assembled printer, there are reputable people in this forum that sell them: gregfrost and spacexula are two that come to mind.

As You can see two weeks passed again, and nothing happened. So, I opened a dispute about my payment at Paypal.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2011 10:47PM by T0nk.