1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct?
Posted by MegaRocketPenguin
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 25, 2015 01:03PM |
without turning this into a discussion about flexible shafts and accuracy, it (Flex3Drive) is extremely accurate with higher print speeds, faster and shorter retracts. The high ratio (40:1) gearing significantly reduces the mechanical loading on the shaft, and a lot of research has gone into supplying "tight" driveshafts with very low torsional deflection. In a nutshell it works very well and allows printing at higher speeds without sacrificing quality. You would get more error as a result of carrying a motor around on a precision axis, or trying to push filament along a long tube.
In answer to your questions about flexible filaments along a bowden, yes it can be done but with very slow print speeds and potential issues with print quality depending on how flexible the filament is. Its a bit like trying to push a rope uphill. flexible filament will also compress in the tube making speed and retract tuning a bit more complex than standard filament. Not impossible, but anything you can do on a bowden you can do better on a flex3drive. Sorry if it sounds like a sales pitch, just providing info for you to consider in your quest.
In answer to your questions about flexible filaments along a bowden, yes it can be done but with very slow print speeds and potential issues with print quality depending on how flexible the filament is. Its a bit like trying to push a rope uphill. flexible filament will also compress in the tube making speed and retract tuning a bit more complex than standard filament. Not impossible, but anything you can do on a bowden you can do better on a flex3drive. Sorry if it sounds like a sales pitch, just providing info for you to consider in your quest.
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 25, 2015 01:08PM |
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Mutley3D
without turning this into a discussion about flexible shafts and accuracy, it (Flex3Drive) is extremely accurate with higher print speeds, faster and shorter retracts. The high ratio (40:1) gearing significantly reduces the mechanical loading on the shaft, and a lot of research has gone into supplying "tight" driveshafts with very low torsional deflection. In a nutshell it works very well and allows printing at higher speeds without sacrificing quality. You would get more error as a result of carrying a motor around on a precision axis, or trying to push filament along a long tube.
In answer to your questions about flexible filaments along a bowden, yes it can be done but with very slow print speeds and potential issues with print quality depending on how flexible the filament is. Its a bit like trying to push a rope uphill. flexible filament will also compress in the tube making speed and retract tuning a bit more complex than standard filament. Not impossible, but anything you can do on a bowden you can do better on a flex3drive. Sorry if it sounds like a sales pitch, just providing info for you to consider in your quest.
With shipping, its 200$ a unit for me. I would need 2 of them. Plus the cost of 2 hotends. Pretty sure there is a more economically efficient method of what I want. Thanks for the info though!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2015 01:09PM by MegaRocketPenguin.
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 25, 2015 02:38PM |
Yes i agree Flex3Drive isnt the cheapest solution. If you factor in your time and effort, your research testing, building, failed prints etc trying various other options, it soon puts a different slant on things. Considering Flex3Drive is a fit and forget item with reliability and consistency......and with support and warranty Its actually not that bad. But possibly out of reach for some budgets.
Its actually not that bad. But possibly out of reach for some budgets.
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 25, 2015 02:40PM |
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Mutley3D
Yes i agree Flex3Drive isnt the cheapest solution. If you factor in your time and effort, your research testing, building, failed prints etc trying various other options, it soon puts a different slant on things. Considering Flex3Drive is a fit and forget item with reliability and consistency......and with support and warranty
Yea... For 500$ for dual extrusion... A wee bit pricey for my budget. It would be convenient, but not possible for my budget. I have more time than money, and so testing an calibrating isn't too big of an issue for me.
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 25, 2015 03:04PM |
Not cheap no, but not $500 to implement what your looking to achieve. Again it depends on budgets. PM if you want to explore. Again i was only flagging up the option rather than opening a debate. In the meanwhile, take a look at a Flexystruder
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 25, 2015 03:48PM |
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Mutley3D
Not cheap no, but not $500 to implement what your looking to achieve. Again it depends on budgets. PM if you want to explore. Again i was only flagging up the option rather than opening a debate. In the meanwhile, take a look at a Flexystruder
Oh wow... How is FlexyExtruder so expensive??? For one extruder its 500$ alone... It looks as if making a clone could be rather easy, and for a much lower cost.
Anyway, I think a combo of traditional bowden and direct drive or even 2 bowden extruder + hotend setup should work fine for me... Depending on how well flexible filament works with bowden when printing with 3mm, I might just go for a dual bowden...
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 25, 2015 04:09PM |
Yea now that IS expensive, especially for what it is. Puts the flex into a markedly different light.
Again it depends on what your looking to achieve, with what budget etc etc. Ultimately with some experience over time you'll get a good feel for what you want and need. If this is a first printer id definately spend a couple/few weeks getting it tuned up on the single extruder first (believe me it wont happen overnight), repraps are Very time intensive, and whilst reaching for the stars is great with respect to multi filament, getting one working right is going to be your first challenge.
Again it depends on what your looking to achieve, with what budget etc etc. Ultimately with some experience over time you'll get a good feel for what you want and need. If this is a first printer id definately spend a couple/few weeks getting it tuned up on the single extruder first (believe me it wont happen overnight), repraps are Very time intensive, and whilst reaching for the stars is great with respect to multi filament, getting one working right is going to be your first challenge.
Quote
MegaRocketPenguin
Quote
Mutley3D
Not cheap no, but not $500 to implement what your looking to achieve. Again it depends on budgets. PM if you want to explore. Again i was only flagging up the option rather than opening a debate. In the meanwhile, take a look at a Flexystruder
Oh wow... How is FlexyExtruder so expensive??? For one extruder its 500$ alone... It looks as if making a clone could be rather easy, and for a much lower cost.
Anyway, I think a combo of traditional bowden and direct drive or even 2 bowden extruder + hotend setup should work fine for me... Depending on how well flexible filament works with bowden when printing with 3mm, I might just go for a dual bowden...
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 25, 2015 06:14PM |
Quote
Mutley3D
Yea now that IS expensive, especially for what it is. Puts the flex into a markedly different light.
Again it depends on what your looking to achieve, with what budget etc etc. Ultimately with some experience over time you'll get a good feel for what you want and need. If this is a first printer id definately spend a couple/few weeks getting it tuned up on the single extruder first (believe me it wont happen overnight), repraps are Very time intensive, and whilst reaching for the stars is great with respect to multi filament, getting one working right is going to be your first challenge.
Quote
MegaRocketPenguin
Quote
Mutley3D
Not cheap no, but not $500 to implement what your looking to achieve. Again it depends on budgets. PM if you want to explore. Again i was only flagging up the option rather than opening a debate. In the meanwhile, take a look at a Flexystruder
Oh wow... How is FlexyExtruder so expensive??? For one extruder its 500$ alone... It looks as if making a clone could be rather easy, and for a much lower cost.
Anyway, I think a combo of traditional bowden and direct drive or even 2 bowden extruder + hotend setup should work fine for me... Depending on how well flexible filament works with bowden when printing with 3mm, I might just go for a dual bowden...
Yea, I'll probably just work on one and see how it feels. I just would like to have an idea of what I should get early on. I never used Bowden, and I never used 3mm or flexible filament, and thus am asking people who have.
Is my first printer, isn't the first time I used one. Basically, the company I interned for told me to fix the Makerbot they somehow managed to break (sarcasm. There is a reason you never see any makerbots running...) And I came back every year to fix it again. I have about two months worth of physical knowledge on 3d printers. So yes, this is my first time owning one, but not the first time tinkering with one. I have come to really hate the j head hotend (Makerbot rep2) and so would really like to replace it asap. (Folger's default is j head)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2015 06:15PM by MegaRocketPenguin.
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 25, 2015 07:50PM |
Quote
MegaRocketPenguin
Quote
Mutley3D
Yea now that IS expensive, especially for what it is. Puts the flex into a markedly different light.
Again it depends on what your looking to achieve, with what budget etc etc. Ultimately with some experience over time you'll get a good feel for what you want and need. If this is a first printer id definately spend a couple/few weeks getting it tuned up on the single extruder first (believe me it wont happen overnight), repraps are Very time intensive, and whilst reaching for the stars is great with respect to multi filament, getting one working right is going to be your first challenge.
Quote
MegaRocketPenguin
Quote
Mutley3D
Not cheap no, but not $500 to implement what your looking to achieve. Again it depends on budgets. PM if you want to explore. Again i was only flagging up the option rather than opening a debate. In the meanwhile, take a look at a Flexystruder
Oh wow... How is FlexyExtruder so expensive??? For one extruder its 500$ alone... It looks as if making a clone could be rather easy, and for a much lower cost.
Anyway, I think a combo of traditional bowden and direct drive or even 2 bowden extruder + hotend setup should work fine for me... Depending on how well flexible filament works with bowden when printing with 3mm, I might just go for a dual bowden...
Yea, I'll probably just work on one and see how it feels. I just would like to have an idea of what I should get early on. I never used Bowden, and I never used 3mm or flexible filament, and thus am asking people who have.
Is my first printer, isn't the first time I used one. Basically, the company I interned for told me to fix the Makerbot they somehow managed to break (sarcasm. There is a reason you never see any makerbots running...) And I came back every year to fix it again. I have about two months worth of physical knowledge on 3d printers. So yes, this is my first time owning one, but not the first time tinkering with one. I have come to really hate the j head hotend (Makerbot rep2) and so would really like to replace it asap. (Folger's default is j head)
I've actually heard a lot of mixed thoughts on the j heads. I was using an original Makerbot rep2 jhead, and I always had printing issues. The last issue no one could solve, and had to leave it broken when I left (would extrude great for the first 10-20 layers, then would jam. Cleaned it, made sure everything was the correct tightness, tried temps from 180 to 230, used brand new Makerbot filament, nothing. Always failed. First thing I am doing when I go back next year is getting an e3d for it.)
I'd much rather have those issues over the jhead. Then again, for the first month or two I will be using the stock jhead on my new printer, so I shall see from there. Either way, I will need at least one more hotend, and I'd rather spend a little extra for an e3d than a jhead.
By channel, you mean the forums? Or is there an irc chat for this?
And yea, with my own experiences and all. I just don't want to drop a few hundred to learn when I could ask people who have already done that, and get the knowledge for free.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2015 07:53PM by MegaRocketPenguin.
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 25, 2015 10:09PM |
You mention an "Original Makerbot rep2 JHead".......There is no such thing as a JHead on a Makerbot. JHead is a brand name that became a generic term (especially for chinese copiers) as the JHead had a very robust and wide spread reputation for being the best hot end of its day, and in many respects it still is.
There is only ONE JHead and that is made by RPW @ www.hotends.com , there are a few resellers that sell these items made only by RPW. There are far more sellers selling fakes/clones made to lower standards of workmanship, tolerances and quality. Ive got a couple of JHeads that have been running for nearly two year with no issue, but they are genuine, and correctly setup.
The issue you mention above regarding stopping after 10-20 layers, experience would tell me to firstly examine the peek tube on the inside, this is a classical symptom of a ptfe tube swelling inside the black PEEK barrel, and in doing so it restricts filament flow which stops not long into the print.
For ANY hotend, always make sure you have a small fan running to keep the cold end of the hot end cold (if that wasnt too confusing)
As for experience, its never free, but yes in the IRC channel theres a whole bunch of friendly folk happy to help and save you time and money, sharing of experiences etc. Just follow the links from the forum for the IRC channel.
There is only ONE JHead and that is made by RPW @ www.hotends.com , there are a few resellers that sell these items made only by RPW. There are far more sellers selling fakes/clones made to lower standards of workmanship, tolerances and quality. Ive got a couple of JHeads that have been running for nearly two year with no issue, but they are genuine, and correctly setup.
The issue you mention above regarding stopping after 10-20 layers, experience would tell me to firstly examine the peek tube on the inside, this is a classical symptom of a ptfe tube swelling inside the black PEEK barrel, and in doing so it restricts filament flow which stops not long into the print.
For ANY hotend, always make sure you have a small fan running to keep the cold end of the hot end cold (if that wasnt too confusing
)As for experience, its never free, but yes in the IRC channel theres a whole bunch of friendly folk happy to help and save you time and money, sharing of experiences etc. Just follow the links from the forum for the IRC channel.
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Re: 1.75mm Bowden/direct and 3mm Bowden/direct? July 26, 2015 12:28AM |
Him, didn't know that. I thought it was a style. Do all of those threaded tubes use PTFE? As you said, Makerbot doesn't use jheads. However, they do use the threaded tube... I was looking at it, and was thinking that perhaps that was the issue, but it looked like metal lining/solid metal hollow threaded tube. Beyond the Makerbot, I haven't disassembled any other hotends, so I wouldn't know. It was the only thing I could think of (we did try printing at high temps extensively) but I didn't realize it was PTFE. (Again, it looks like a solid metal tube) will probably have that replaced along with the nozzle (no idea what the source is on that either, but I do know I replaced it once already.)Quote
MegaRocketPenguin
Quote
Mutley3D
You mention an "Original Makerbot rep2 JHead".......There is no such thing as a JHead on a Makerbot. JHead is a brand name that became a generic term (especially for chinese copiers) as the JHead had a very robust and wide spread reputation for being the best hot end of its day, and in many respects it still is.
There is only ONE JHead and that is made by RPW @ www.hotends.com , there are a few resellers that sell these items made only by RPW. There are far more sellers selling fakes/clones made to lower standards of workmanship, tolerances and quality. Ive got a couple of JHeads that have been running for nearly two year with no issue, but they are genuine, and correctly setup.
The issue you mention above regarding stopping after 10-20 layers, experience would tell me to firstly examine the peek tube on the inside, this is a classical symptom of a ptfe tube swelling inside the black PEEK barrel, and in doing so it restricts filament flow which stops not long into the print.
For ANY hotend, always make sure you have a small fan running to keep the cold end of the hot end cold (if that wasnt too confusing
As for experience, its never free, but yes in the IRC channel theres a whole bunch of friendly folk happy to help and save you time and money, sharing of experiences etc. Just follow the links from the forum for the IRC channel.
Him, didn't know that. I thought it was a style. Do all of those threaded tubes use PTFE? As you said, Makerbot doesn't use jheads. However, they do use the threaded tube... I was looking at it, and was thinking that perhaps that was the issue, but it looked like metal lining/solid metal hollow threaded tube. Beyond the Makerbot, I haven't disassembled any other hotends, so I wouldn't know. It was the only thing I could think of (we did try printing at high temps extensively) but I didn't realize it was PTFE. (Again, it looks like a solid metal tube) will probably have that replaced along with the nozzle (no idea what the source is on that either, but I do know I replaced it once already.)
I getr what you mean. The fan lost quite a few blades a year or two back, and was used as such, which could also explain part of the issue. I did however replace it this year, before the mid print failure.
I realize it isn't free, but it can be cheaper by learning off of other peoples money/knowledge/trials.
I getr what you mean. The fan lost quite a few blades a year or two back, and was used as such, which could also explain part of the issue. I did however replace it this year, before the mid print failure.
I realize it isn't free, but it can be cheaper by learning off of other peoples money/knowledge/trials.
I'll look into that irc channel
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