A year of ABS, the year of hell

i went through the trouble of trying my best to give my 6kg of ABS a chance. i didn't know what i was getting into when i bought it... i went through the trouble of buying a PEI sheet, i even built a wooden box for my delta...

it did help with the small parts though, but the quality i was expecting is just not there. Impossible to get rid of the stringing completely, large part always curl and the finish looks overcooked.. Parts are brittle, and delamination is an issue on at least one part out of two. I fiddled with the settings for a long time believe me when i say i'm sure i tried everything.

There is only one part that didn't make my "bag of failed parts", its a monitor holder i modified from two other design. Knowing the property of ABS, i made the modification necessary for the part to be strong, and it is at least strong enough for a small 15inch monitor. The PLA part would've been a lot stronger...

[www.thingiverse.com]


Anyway i'm done, i bought a roll of PLA... This stuff is amazing! Easy to use and the parts looks gorgeous.

Now, what am i gonna do with that wood box... it actually amplify the sound of the steppers and its useless with pla... i think i'm gonna add drawers and use it to store parts and tools...

Anybody else has an horror story?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 09:16PM by swe3tdave.

I am having the same issues with ABS and sad to say I stocked up on 6kg of it when it went on sale. At times I can get nice prints but others times not so much. I am thinking about trying PET or PETG filaments but the stuff is expensive and not very common yet.

I have managed to make quite small and nice things from ABS, but it needs very precise configuration, support structures and very adhesive ABS juice bed. Perhaps there is a lot of quality variation between different ABS brands?

Small ABS gears on my Reprap:
[youtu.be]

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Prusa i3, Ramps 1.4. Catnozzle 0.4mm
SketchUp - Enveloping Globoid Worm Gear - Part One - 3D Printed: [youtu.be]
DesignSpark Mechanical & more precise screw thread: [youtu.be]
Nicer Screw Thread In SketchUp ( Bolts,Nuts): [youtu.be]
How To Model A Heart Shape In SketchUp: [youtu.be]
How To Draw 3D Printable Snap Fit Ball Joint In SketchUp: [youtu.be]

I would be willing to bet that everyone here has at least one horror story.

Mine was with PLA when I first built my printer. I designed and built my own printer, did my research, and sourced my own parts. The hotend I chose, however, was not a good choice. I purchased parts for it off of Ebay from a man in Ohio. (yes that guy). In fact I bought a second one from him as I thought I must have gotten a bad one at first. no where in his ad or conversations did he say PLA did not work well (or at all) with his hotend. I spent the better part of 2 months dealing with jamming problems, and any thing over a small part would fail. I did finally buy a better hotend, and all was good. It was only after a post he made here a few months later stating he had fixed the hotend to work with PLA that I was alerted to the issue. I was ready to give up at at one point, and I am still a little miffed at the guy for never disclosing that information in any documentation.

Same horror story here, but with PLA.

I bought 5 kgs of various color PLA fron EsunPla, really cheap because it was supposed to be "coloration failed". Paid 2 thirds of the total in shipping actually.

Indeed the black opaque was more grey than black, and the 3 translucent colors were very translucent, just faintly colored.

But it turned out that it was not only the coloration which failed. All the rolls i got are not usable because :

- the translucent are way too easy to break. One of the rolls shattered itself into pieces without a reason. At the time I was using a bowden extruder, it was clearly not possible to make it pass the PTFE tubing without breaking.

- the opaque "black PLA" was far from being pure PLA :
Its smell is horrible, like expanded polystyrene being molted using a lighter. I suspect they wanted to profit the black color will hide anything to ninja-incorporate some plastic wastes, as is often the case with black cheap products, and made an error in the quantities.
The fusion temperature is way off - starts drooling from the hotend at 150°C. Needless to say, it is extremely stringy to print, no retraction settings could help with the hairy mess it did.
It's nearly impossible to make the layers adhere to each others, even at 220°c you can pry the printed layers apart by just pinching at the part...

I just swallowed that experience and kept the remaining of the plastic in case i want to mold something out of it - it's the only use I can imagine for that crap.
The positive point is I know now not to start buying from a new supplier in large quantities... And also don't trust vendors. See for yourself.

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

I have not had much truble with ABS, I have not tried PLA as it does not suit my needs. I had a few clogs here and there, and fought stringing etc. etc. But I learned a few things along the way.

1 - measure your filament at least in 10 different places every 30cm or so and get an average. (easy to do as you simply run a caliper to the roll and measure each coil)
2 - if your bed takes longer to heat up than the hot end, preheat the bed first then heat up the hot end. I had more clogging issues due to the filament staying in the hot end for 15 minutes while the bed made it to temp than anything else.
3 - make sure your filament is springy enough. (if you can snap it by hand easily then do not trust it for long prints) It should be fairly flexible.

Concerning #3, I have 1/4 roll of natural ABS that is very fragile, I only print small parts with it.

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Modicum V1 sold on e-bay user jaguarking11

I highly agree with number 2.
I ALWAYS heat my bed, home then heat the hot end.

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jaguarking11
I have not had much truble with ABS, I have not tried PLA as it does not suit my needs. I had a few clogs here and there, and fought stringing etc. etc. But I learned a few things along the way.

1 - measure your filament at least in 10 different places every 30cm or so and get an average. (easy to do as you simply run a caliper to the roll and measure each coil)
2 - if your bed takes longer to heat up than the hot end, preheat the bed first then heat up the hot end. I had more clogging issues due to the filament staying in the hot end for 15 minutes while the bed made it to temp than anything else.
3 - make sure your filament is springy enough. (if you can snap it by hand easily then do not trust it for long prints) It should be fairly flexible.

Concerning #3, I have 1/4 roll of natural ABS that is very fragile, I only print small parts with it.

Just out of curiosity is that normal for natural ABS? I ask because I just picked up some from an ebay vendor for 9.99 with free shipping and haven't had a chance to try it out yet. Also got some flouresent yellow which looks really neat. I could'nt believe the price but tempered it with the possiblity that the filament might be crappy so I only got two rolls. If it works and they still offer the rolls at the same price I'm stocking up

until now every roll of natural ABS has been somewhat more fragile than black ABS. It does extrude at lower temps however. I can print at 220c up to 30mm/s then bump it to 230 for faster printing 45mm/s. However natural seems to be more picky with high speed prints, after 45mm/s its a lost cause maybe touching 50mm/s. I find that black ABS is easier to work with on larger prints, it rarely clogs unless I did not thoroughly measure it properly, however it requires a higher minimal temp, 230c is the starting point for black ABS in my setup.

one more thing about natural ABS is that if you are heating the heated bed and hot end at the same time, and it sits in the nozzle for more than a few minutes at 230c it will jam the nozzle shut. Requiering an overnight soak of the nozzle in acetone. One more thing though. Natural ABS breaks down faster in acetone than black. I have only ever printed in natural and black. My needs require either of those two colors for the moment.

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Modicum V1 sold on e-bay user jaguarking11

Seriously! So much trouble with ABS. This cant be right, you MUST be doing something wrong or something not right with the machine (or the filament)

I print ABS all the time. 90/10 is my ratio of ABS to PLA prints. If i get a curl or warp, i often see ive done something wrong.

You need a bed that does get hot, seriously hot 100-110. Use Kapton, ABS Juice. Apply juice when bed is HOT. Keep brushing it till it develops a roughish surface. Make sure Z is correct. If your print does not stick, try adding more abs to the acetone. Do NOT use nail polish remover, it has oils in it, get Pure (99.5% lab grade) acetone.

Dont give up and dont limit yourself to just PLA!!!!! You also need a good extruder

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2014 05:57PM by Mutley3D.

A lot of these issues will be due to absolute crap filament. If you pay bottom dollar, you pay for it in other ways.

I've seen many a person struggling to print, you give them some known decent filament and they are printing in minutes!

The second most common cause is crappy hot ends from e-bay or aliexpress. All I can say is get your hot end from a reputable supplier if you don't want a "year of hell"

Quote
Dust
A lot of these issues will be due to absolute crap filament. If you pay bottom dollar, you pay for it in other ways.

I've seen many a person struggling to print, you give them some known decent filament and they are printing in minutes!

The second most common cause is crappy hot ends from e-bay or aliexpress. All I can say is get your hot end from a reputable supplier if you don't want a "year of hell"

You certainly get what you pay for in this world. However, if your willing to check your parts for tolerances and fit, an e-bay hot end or aliexpress part will do the same job as a more expensive unit. While I understand the frustration with cheap stuff. More often than not aliexpress parts have been totaly worth it. I bought 3 different hot ends from there. I bought a j-head with a .4mm nozzle that printed more abs than anything. When I received it I dissembled it and looked for blockage, dirt etc. I then measured the parts and resembled it. It was worth the price I paid ~24usd..... My second and third hot ends were cheaper than the jhead, they are properly machined and have not had any issues with them. Use common sense here, I had to clean out the back of a nozzle on 1 of 3 heads I bought due to some brass swarf being left behind. Once cleaned and inspected it was properly assembled and in use. The more expensive units are not immune to impurities. Some have found metal and others have found parts of teflon in their "brand name" units that cost sometimes 4-6x the price....

here is the result of a 24 dollar loaded j-head (heater catridge and thermistor included) [www.youtube.com] Now tell me the 60+ dollar unit is better? Note I only print in abs....

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Modicum V1 sold on e-bay user jaguarking11

Quote
jaguarking11

Quote
Dust
A lot of these issues will be due to absolute crap filament. If you pay bottom dollar, you pay for it in other ways.

I've seen many a person struggling to print, you give them some known decent filament and they are printing in minutes!

The second most common cause is crappy hot ends from e-bay or aliexpress. All I can say is get your hot end from a reputable supplier if you don't want a "year of hell"

You certainly get what you pay for in this world. However, if your willing to check your parts for tolerances and fit, an e-bay hot end or aliexpress part will do the same job as a more expensive unit. While I understand the frustration with cheap stuff. More often than not aliexpress parts have been totaly worth it. I bought 3 different hot ends from there. I bought a j-head with a .4mm nozzle that printed more abs than anything. When I received it I dissembled it and looked for blockage, dirt etc. I then measured the parts and resembled it. It was worth the price I paid ~24usd..... My second and third hot ends were cheaper than the jhead, they are properly machined and have not had any issues with them. Use common sense here, I had to clean out the back of a nozzle on 1 of 3 heads I bought due to some brass swarf being left behind. Once cleaned and inspected it was properly assembled and in use. The more expensive units are not immune to impurities. Some have found metal and others have found parts of teflon in their "brand name" units that cost sometimes 4-6x the price....

here is the result of a 24 dollar loaded j-head (heater catridge and thermistor included) [www.youtube.com] Now tell me the 60+ dollar unit is better? Note I only print in abs....

you essentially got lucky , there are plenty of counterfeit jheads on the market which can't possibly work, eg the ones with no liner, the ones made from a lower grade of peek (which melt at lower temperatures) , the ones which use abs instead of peek (not many of those though) , then you have the ones which are called jheads but are closer to E3D which are a bit more random in their ability to print anything let alone actually assemble properly... take your pick,

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I wont argue. As I said you do get what you pay for. However its not just luck. If you take a chance like I did and purchase from an unknown supplier at a ridiculous price you should inspect the product. Most people are used to the buy and put it in there motto. I also bought one of those metal j-heads FYI, I bought two of them. The machining was very good and the parts were precise. They worked perfectly. I bought from two different suppliers as the price of those was very low.

I had two problems with them. They both use teflon liner in the heat break, understandably for PLA, and the second thing is one of them had some metal shavings left over in the brass nozzle. I cleaned that up. They both function properly. I will be purchasing a new barrel for one of those that is 100% stainless. I want to crank these up to 300C+ in the future and teflon will not survive.

Another note, my now retired jhead withstood around 280c for nearly 2 hours while printing with an overbored nozzle of 1.54mm. Its still functional, although I do not trust it any longer. Reason I went with all metal this time.

I have to also agree that if I purchosed those parts for 60-80bux I would have been pissed to find teflon in the barrel and shavings in the head. But what I lacked in paying out of pocket, I paid in time to disassemble, measure, and reassemble the hot end.

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Modicum V1 sold on e-bay user jaguarking11

I actually prefer ABS over PLA.
Use purple glue stick on glass, 250* extr and 105-110* bed.
Maybe I'm just a lucky newb with a Prusa i3v 10" bed

I only do ABS now. Stronger than PLA and I can use the parts I make outdoors in the weather.
Two things I have learnt in the 18 months I have been printing: the most important things are the hot end, and secondly filament quality. Steer clear of black ABS and you should be OK.

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dave3d
I only do ABS now. Stronger than PLA and I can use the parts I make outdoors in the weather.
Two things I have learnt in the 18 months I have been printing: the most important things are the hot end, and secondly filament quality. Steer clear of black ABS and you should be OK.

I find black ABS easier to print with than natural..... Is it just me?

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jaguarking11:
I can't find a good black. I have wasted my money on 3 different spools now. The first one I bought on Ebay was very cheap and stunk out the living room. I have tried out two other spools from other suppliers and the quality is awful. It did not extrude consistently and the layers delaminated easily. Car bumpers and other ABS parts are recycled now. It all ends up in the mix. All to do with saving the planet.
Other colours are absolutely fine. Black can have a lot of recycled material and can be disguised easily with black pigment.
If you can recommend a good source let me know.

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dave3d
jaguarking11:
I can't find a good black. I have wasted my money on 3 different spools now. The first one I bought on Ebay was very cheap and stunk out the living room. I have tried out two other spools from other suppliers and the quality is awful. It did not extrude consistently and the layers delaminated easily. Car bumpers and other ABS parts are recycled now. It all ends up in the mix. All to do with saving the planet.
Other colours are absolutely fine. Black can have a lot of recycled material and can be disguised easily with black pigment.
If you can recommend a good source let me know.

I really do not like to make recommendations as what can work for me can be crap for others. However, the best luck I have had with black has been Inland brand from microcenter. ~ 16USD. It has been good with the following 3 nozzles, with very smooth extrusions. .4mm, .5mm & 1.2mm nozzle. While I have not tried the natural color from inland just yet. Generally speaking the natural ABS has been more problematic, with finding the printer printing in mid air more than once due to clog.

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Modicum V1 sold on e-bay user jaguarking11

well, i only tried black ABS so here goes away my part of the complaining..

What are you guys using as an extruder? I've had problems with my E3Dv5, i changed the heat break two times because the smallest part always ends up curved inside and it clogs like hell. One bad setting in slic3r and you end up with a few bumps on your part, that seems to be enough to wreck it(the heat break)... ABS doesn't seems to care as much as PLA tough.. As i was saying, i wrecked another heat break, that would be the 3rd, only this time it seems i can't find them on the usual web site. They only got v6. Not that i would consider buying another...

So, i bought a j-head from hotends.com. I'm not gonna try it with ABS though, i dont really like the idea of pushing the heat limit of PEEK that much.

i might try the Prometheus hotend... I dont want to go with a E3Dv6, i mean.. i've spent enough money on heat breaks and i'm tired of it... The E3D would need a bigger heater block, big enough to bolt the heater on the effector, or on the heat sink in a way that it would prevent damaging the heat break... That's what i think anyway.

So, i'm thinking about getting a filament extruder in the summer or something like that. Maybe i can try making black abs filament myself and see if there is an improvement. It might be faster to ask one of the youtuber who has one already...

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2014 11:16PM by swe3tdave.

I bought a couple of jheads from hotends.com. 1.75mm filament and 0.35 nozzle.
I extrude at 230 deg C and peek is fine. Spare parts for the jhead are no problem anyway.