Printrbot vs. Mendel90/i3 from the beginners perspective

Hello everybody,

my name is Martin and I am looking forward into getting a 3d printer! I already read a lot, so I am familiar with some of the concepts. I hope this subsection is the right one
My question is: As a beginner and a German being in the US right now, what are the pros and cons in getting the Printrbot Simple 2014 vs. Nopheads Mendel90 vs. (Makerfarm's) i3 Kit?

I decided to get a kit. Since being a student, financial budget is limited. At home, I have plenty of tools, so I don't have to get these and I have most of the tools needed.

1. The financial aspect calculated in Euro: The Printrbot is at 270€, the Makerfarm's i3 kit at 440€ and the Mendel90 lies at 690€. So, it is around 63% less in each step from Printrbot thru i3 and Mendel90. In general, I like the idea of open source repraps.

2. Purpose and further thoughts: With the device, I'd like to realize some of my ideas - nothing in particular artistic. But who knows what's coming into my mind the time I own such a device. Therefore, I'd like to avoid underestimating my needs.

3. Print results: Having been to a local hackerspace, I was able to do my own print on a Printrbot Jr. - assuming the Simple is a more recent version, the prints should be a little bit better. It was a rather simple object but i was pretty impressed by its quality already. About the other two devices, unfortunately, I have no information except for videos.

4. Time given: Since being a student, time is kind of limited. I cannot put an arbitrarily big amount of time into construction and build-up time in a given time period. Of course, I am not in a hurry in building it up. I am not sure about my frustration tolerance regarding things like that - it should be high enough :-).

5. Advantages of living in the US: I am able to get the Printrbot for the price mentioned above (otherwise way more vial e.g. Amazon.de) and the for the Makerfarm's i3, I would save approx 50$ in shipping. Regarding the Mendel90 kit, there's no advantage.

In my case, what do think fits the best. From the perspective of somebody who has some more experiences than me?

Where the Mendel90 seems to be a really good kit and the Printrbot is a cheap model made for beginners, the first option is more expensive and the second might be underestimating my needs. Therefore, the Makerfarm's i3 attracted my interest: everything but a glass plate and a power suply is included, even a LCD display for standalone use. The design is pretty much the same as the Mendel90 except for cable management and of course the "90"-design. If the wood of the Makerfarm's kit is not as stable as the material used for the Mendel90, I am not sure about.

I am absolutely looking forward to you helping replys! If you need any more information, don't hesitate to ask - it'd be a pleasure to provide them!


Best wishes,
mardy3d :-)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2014 06:04PM by mardy3d.

I have been using a Mendel90 for over a year now and am very happy with it. It is a sturdy design. The kit was quite straightforward to build.
Calibration is very important and for the best print quality I would recommend getting a dial gauge.
Some prints:

Thank you for the reply! I actually have one of these :-) have you been able to compare your results with other printers?
Oh, and is there anything you don't like about the Mendel90? Thanks so much in advance!

As an owner of a Printrbot Simple (2014 model, not the makers edition with the level sensor), let me say that it is a good printer that is easy to assemble.

The more difficult steps were putting the sandpaper wheels on the steppers, just messy in my opinion and you may need to get extras in case you end up wearing down the sandpaper. Tensioning the fishing line wasn't too difficult but I reccomend supergluing the knot to keep it from coming loose.

The main cons with the simple aside from the above building steps are the build volume and leveling the printbed. The build volume of the Simple is 4" cubed and you may find yourself having to come up with creative methods to print a design you find online. You have to take account that the simple print head dips slightly as it moves along the Y (?) Axis due to the weight of the extruder. It's not terribly large but it will require a bit of tweaking to get it right.

If you are looking for a good value, the Printrbot is a good deal and readily available. But if you have the budget for it, I'd spend a little extra for the bigger volume because you will want to print bigger parts at some point.

Thanks for your answer! I heard about the heavy extruder as that point. I didnt take into account that the smaller build volume could stop me from using bigger-print-volume-purposed prints.

I think you are right with your point there! but would go the whole way up to the mendel90?

The thing is that there are no obvious advantages of the mendel90 over the regarded Makerfarm i3 kit: build volume the same, quite more expensive and at many other points the same stats like heated printbed.

What does cause the higher price? Just the design?

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mardy3d
Thank you for the reply! I actually have one of these :-) have you been able to compare your results with other printers?
Oh, and is there anything you don't like about the Mendel90? Thanks so much in advance!

I haven't directly compared with another printer. I'll be building a Kossel mini soon though which you might also want to look at as an option.
The only thing I didn't like with the Mendel90 was the Y idler design but that is a rather minor point and it was easy to make a new one.
I have only heard good things about Makerfarm. I don't think you would be unhappy with either machine.
If I were buying from Makerfarm then I'd be very tempted by the 10" i3v as it seems you get quite a lot extra for not much more expense.
The Mendel90 price includes VAT so you should be able to get that deducted for non EU purchase.

I have a Simple 1405 (Maker's Edition/ Latest one), and I am happy with it. However, I am looking at building a Prusa i3. I definitely feel that I could have better spent my $350 (270 euros) that I spent on my Printrbot on something better, such as sourcing my own parts for an i3. It is not hard to build an i3 for the price (or less than the price) of a Printrbot Simple. You will get a bigger build volume and in my opinion something overall better and truer to the RepRap goal. The Simple has no printed parts, but you can replace all the wood with printed parts. I am also a student, and seeing as you want the most for your money the Phoenix is great for the money. It has a big build volume and good resolution. (I do not own a Phoenix, so I am not speaking from experience but from my perception of it.) If you are interested in sourcing your own parts, I can give you a complete parts list with links when I am finished building my i3.

Here is an easy way to figure this out.
Every printer has the same amount of electronics and motors in it, subtract them from the price and what does that leave for the frame and linear movement and how durable will that system be in the long run? The Simple is a fantastic machine for the money, and that is the key. It's going to require more effort and upkeep in the long run to maintain tolerances and quality. It's also scaled down to save costs. Don't get me wrong, the Simple is a great little design, just be sure you understand what you are getting. Most people I meet with a Simple like them, but all seem to be planning something bigger/better. Even the guy with two of them.

If you just want something to toy with on occasion or get your feet wet, the Simple is great. If you want a workhorse printer, spend more and get a bigger machine that is designed for long term, heavier duty use.

If it was me, I would do the I3, but not with a metal frame. You can also get some nice deltas for that kind of money.

Hey!

Thanks for the help so far. First of all, i just asked Nophead via mail and found that the kit would be 880$ if i get it in the US and 1100$ if i get it in germany. Thats a whole lot of money seeing the Makerfarm and other offers.

The whole kossel design seems interesting! Unfortunately, prices arent that much cheaper: they range at approx 500$.

Thank you for the 10" hint, that night be a good Option. I will read further on the i3 printer to understand it a little bit more.
Thank you as well for the Phoenix hint, i will search for some more information, experiences and print results on that device. It is not a reprap, is it? And besides that it is not an open source design sold by an arbitrary company but more their 3d printer, I think.

What prerequisits does one have to fulfill in order to selfsource an i3 for <= the Printrbot price? For me, even all the shopping costs for the parts seemed to be pretty high.

When do intend to be finished? I would really appreciate getting your parts list since the webpages on the reprap Website and the given partslist there are not quite clear to me.

Of course, self sourcing is the only and Bests way to me. But i am tending to plan everything into the deepest detail what often results in not actually starting the whole thing. Furthermore, using independent sources for the stuff scares me a little bit since i am just know sure how that whole thing works out.

That calculation makes sense - especially taking the long-term maintance into account is a good idea! Well, I am just not sure about my needs but as mentioned above, I would like to avoid underestimate my needs. Deltas seem interesting but more something I'd try in the future once I got settled with the cartesian-style printers. Why not the metal frame one, if I may ask?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2014 06:05PM by mardy3d.

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mardy3d
Hey!

Thanks for the help so far. First of all, i just asked Nophead via mail and found that the kit would be 880$ if i get it in the US and 1100$ if i get it in germany. Thats a whole lot of money seeing the Makerfarm and other offers.

The whole kossel design seems interesting! Unfortunately, prices arent that much cheaper: they range at approx 500$.

Thank you for the 10" hint, that night be a good Option. I will read further on the i3 printer to understand it a little bit more.
Thank you as well for the Phoenix hint, i will search for some more information, experiences and print results on that device. It is not a reprap, is it? And besides that it is not an open source design sold by an arbitrary company but more their 3d printer, I think.

What prerequisits does one have to fulfill in order to selfsource an i3 for <= the Printrbot price? For me, even all the shopping costs for the parts seemed to be pretty high.

When do intend to be finished? I would really appreciate getting your parts list since the webpages on the reprap Website and the given partslist there are not quite clear to me.

Of course, self sourcing is the only and Bests way to me. But i am tending to plan everything into the deepest detail what often results in not actually starting the whole thing. Furthermore, using independent sources for the stuff scares me a little bit since i am just know sure how that whole thing works out.

I am getting my parts from Amazon and EBay. Most of the items have free expedited shipping while the ones that don't have a small shipping fee. I can give you the links to look at the parts when I have mine built. I should be done in a week or two. I also found the official page very confusing. I still have not found a simple list.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2014 06:08PM by pisquaredtau.

That would be perfect! I am in the US for 5 more weeks, so plenty of time to decide!

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mardy3d
That would be perfect! I am in the US for 5 more weeks, so plenty of time to decide!

Do you have access to a printer so that you can print some of the parts? It would only save you about $35 however.

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pisquaredtau

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mardy3d
That would be perfect! I am in the US for 5 more weeks, so plenty of time to decide!

Do you have access to a printer so that you can print some of the parts? It would only save you about $35 however.

Not as far as I am concerned. A guy offered me to print stuff like 1/2 year ago so more something very uncertain. Do you mean $35 versus buying them?

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mardy3d

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pisquaredtau

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mardy3d
That would be perfect! I am in the US for 5 more weeks, so plenty of time to decide!

Do you have access to a printer so that you can print some of the parts? It would only save you about $35 however.

Not as far as I am concerned. A guy offered me to print stuff like 1/2 year ago so more something very uncertain. Do you mean $35 versus buying them?

Buying them would cost about $35 with free shipping. Printing them with your own filament would be much cheaper.

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pisquaredtau

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mardy3d

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pisquaredtau

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mardy3d
That would be perfect! I am in the US for 5 more weeks, so plenty of time to decide!

Do you have access to a printer so that you can print some of the parts? It would only save you about $35 however.

Not as far as I am concerned. A guy offered me to print stuff like 1/2 year ago so more something very uncertain. Do you mean $35 versus buying them?

Buying them would cost about $35 with free shipping. Printing them with your own filament would be much cheaper.

Okay, I see what you mean. But $35 should be an too big obstacle. :-)

Hello everybody,

I thought about all the things over the weekend some more. I came to the conclusion that the i3 might be the best decision. It is fully reprap, open source and thus, even a comercial-bought kit can be customized later. If you guys don't reveal any major points which change my mind, that's set. Of course, the Phoenix printer is pretty cheap (see interesting offers below!) but not very much Reprap and it seems more closed to me.

@pisquaredtau: I am looking forward to your list :-).

Now, I am thinking about the kit to get. The options I was figuring out and finding on the web:

1.1 Makerfarm Kit: 8''. The price is still way lower than what I already accepted to pay. There seem to be many people who are happy with it. The insturctions seem reasonable to me with included videos and buyers state that one can contact the seller if needed.
1.2 Makerfarm Kit: 10''. As stated above, it is only a small amount of money in addition to get a bigger build volume. Besides that, pretty much everything is the same as in 1.1
2 There is a kit I found on replikeo. Maybe you guys could take a look, here is the link: [www.replikeo.com]. Even the aluminium version is not too expensive. There is no wood available and it comes without a LCD - whereas I have to admit that this is just a "nice to have" for me. It is also using RAMPS 1.4.
3 Some interesting offers on: [shop.diytechshop.com]

My questions:
Q1: In the buyers guide, there is quite a bit list of sellers. Is there anything I should look for while finding their i3 kit prices? From certain extruders to electronics.
Q2: From your experiences, is using metal or dibond superior over wood (e.g. plywood)? E.g. there are offers quite similar to the Makerfarm one but with some kind of metal frame.
Q3: What would you consider as the best price-to-value kit?

Thank you so much!

Hi everybody!

@pisquaredtau: Have you been able to proceed in your setup?

The point to make my decision comes closer. Still, I am tending to get the Makerfarm 10'' version due to some good reviews and people being happy about that kit. Of course, there are many specifications I am not quite sure about.

Here are my most recent questions:
Q0: What do you think about the Replikeo offer at this point?
Q1: What hot end should I get from the makerfarm page?
Q2: The one of my last post. Thus, is wood comparable to other materials offered?
Q3: What is the EiNSTein design. what are the major differences to the one offered at makerfarm?
Q4: Doing some research, I found quite a few i3 kits for around 400$ (e.g. see Q0). What distinguishes the makerfarm version is the "v" - version. Is this feature as stable as I am tempted to think?

Hope, you can help me out! That'd be great and I am happy about any help!

Bests, Martin :-)

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mardy3d
Hi everybody!

@pisquaredtau: Have you been able to proceed in your setup?

The point to make my decision comes closer. Still, I am tending to get the Makerfarm 10'' version due to some good reviews and people being happy about that kit. Of course, there are many specifications I am not quite sure about.

Here are my most recent questions:
Q0: What do you think about the Replikeo offer at this point?
Q1: What hot end should I get from the makerfarm page?
Q2: The one of my last post. Thus, is wood comparable to other materials offered?
Q3: What is the EiNSTein design. what are the major differences to the one offered at makerfarm?
Q4: Doing some research, I found quite a few i3 kits for around 400$ (e.g. see Q0). What distinguishes the makerfarm version is the "v" - version. Is this feature as stable as I am tempted to think?

Hope, you can help me out! That'd be great and I am happy about any help!

Bests, Martin :-)

I started building yesterday. Should be done in a few days.

Still working on it. I have been busy with school. Almost done. I just need to add the endstops and bed.

Great, thank you for update! I am going to get the 10'' Makerfarm i3 version. I am looking forward to your results :-)

The Replikeo website seems nice but I have read quite a few reviews that make me conclude this offer is not made for my situation.

Converging to placing my order, what nozzle configuration should I take?

More detailled: JHead 3mm .5mm or the Hexagon 3mm .4mm version? The hexagon is $20 additional. Unfortunately, I was not able to find proper information about the differences.

I don't think the hexagon is good for PLA. In general, all metal is not good for PLA. If you plan on doing mostly ABS, the hexagon will be good. If you want to experiment and try different kinds of filament, I'd say get the J Head.

Yea, experimenting is what i want to do at first. Getting to know the Maschine first.

Okay, ill go for the jhead then. It seemed the better solution anyhow because of the price and it seemed to be more general to me.

What to think of the following offer called Pango i3?

[thre3d.com]

Furthermore: I was told the .5mm jhead would be preferable for beginners. Is this a reasonable choice over the .35mm version?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2014 09:41PM by mardy3d.