Sore throat and cough? new printer?

Hi all,
I've only recently built my first 3d printer and I absolutley love it. it's freedom of expression extraordinaire for me!
My slight worry is that since I've started using it (at home and at work) myself, my wife and the lad I work with have all developed a tickly cough and a sore throat. My wife's eyes look somewhat redline'd too
I've only printed in PLA so far and usually only at 185c, though I have gone as high as 220c during testing etc. It's winter and we could all have a cold/flu virus/bacterium but it does seem a little coincidental that we should all feel these effects after exposure to the printer.

I'm looking at encasing it with extraction to be sure but my question is, have/did any of you encounter such symptoms or any other adverse affects when you first started 3d printing?
Cheers
D
:-)

PLA is maybe the least problematic of all materials in this regard. What might happen is that some part of the hotend overheats or maybe a wrong glue was used to fix the thermistor or similar. My personal bet would be on the flu though.
Get well soon
Cheers
Björn

---

[www.bonkers.de]
[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]

The damage we sustain from the fumes would be long-term anyway

The first time I did exercise after spending some time setting the printer up I thought my quads were going to explode and I was coughing like mad at the top of a hill I'd usually have no issue with.
Also when I coughed, I felt like I was losing blood pressure to the head!
That was cyling and I went running today and didn't feel anywhere near as bad so maybe it is just a sniffle....
Still going to put it in a box though!
Cheers all.
D
:-)

Why ask and then ignore the responses?

I watched a sit movie yesterday, and now I have a cold too...

---

Currently printing on a MakerFarm Prusa i3. Curiously awaiting a PeachyPrinter.

I sit by a laser that cut's acrylic and wood all the live long day, and sometimes customers walk in and say, "What is that smell?" I'd like to tell them that the potpourri and candles factory is down the road. If you don't want your house to smell like a factory, don't have one on your desk!

Quote
Cylindric
Why ask and then ignore the responses?

I watched a sit movie yesterday, and now I have a cold too...

That's a strange response Cylindric?
What makes you think I've ignored the responses?

Some people can smoke 40 cigarettes a day and not get lung cancer, unfortunatley for me when I was a kid, fatally my dad wasn't one of them.

I'm extremely sensitive to Nitromethethane that none of the other lads I fly toy helicopters with are.

Your response shows a complete lack of thought.
D

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2014 06:49PM by maddog7.

here's a study you can read:
[www.sciencedirect.com]

I think if you have concerns, move it out of the house and into the garage/workshop. a case would likely only treat hypochondria.

These studies indicate to me that outdoor fresh air is bad for you, and it's equivalent to inside air with a 3d printer.
Lot of assumptions admitted in these studies.
I would like to see this contrasted to vacuuming, sweeping, and farting.

Outdoor air pollution:

A 10 mug/m3 increase in the concentration of PM10 was associated with an increase in mortality by 0.27%

A 12,690 cm-3 increase in the UFP NC was associated with an increase in mortality by 4.5% at lag 4 days

The RR for total mortality for a 10 mug/m3 increase in MC0.01–2.5 (same day) in the present study was 1.004

In contrast to the previous study (Wichmann et al., 2000), no association of fine particle mass with mortality or cause-specific mortality was observed in the present study.

There might be some uncertainty concerning the classification of the deaths as cardio-respiratory or cardiovascular.
[www.nature.com]


Conclusion Our results indicate possible effects of traffic-related air pollution
[eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2014 09:07AM by A2.

Idea: shop vac with a HEPA filter packed in activated carbon.
Add a variable voltage controller to slow/quite the motor down.

Build a laser cutter fume extractor
[www.instructables.com]

[hackaday.com]
Short and non scientific article on abs fumes

Not endorsing or anything, but might be interesting for those who are concerned. Personally, I built a simple exhaust to get the abs fumes (I print almost primarily in ABS) as the smell really get on my nerves.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2014 11:29AM by chngyian.

For ultrafine particles, ionizing filters do a great job.
They charge up any particles leaving the HEPA filter and catch them with the other electrode.
[hackaday.com]

Thanks for the helpful replies folks.

My OP was merely to see if anyone had felt that their printer may have had some effects on their airways.

My printer will not reside in my home or garage.

I'm going to construct an acrylic box and use an extractor to vent outdoors.

I might be a bit overly sensitive to things affecting my lungs (apart from having a dad that smoked, I've worked in labs before and been exposed to all sorts of particulates and vapours)

It may be that the output of heated PLA/ABS does not have any real issue for us but if we don't (usually) feel any sympoms we could happily carry on all day filling our lungs with nasy stuff and wondering why we've gotten lung cancer at 50.

Yes, after a week of PLA printing my Wife and Son noticed sinus and lung irritation. The smell of pancakes gets old too.

I built a box with a fan, no fumes now. gathers some heat for ABS. I would not consider printing PLA or ABS inside without exhaust fans.

Quote
maddog7
I'm looking at encasing it with extraction to be sure but my question is, have/did any of you encounter such symptoms or any other adverse affects when you first started 3d printing?
Cheers
D
:-)

Quote
A2
For ultrafine particles, ionizing filters do a great job.
They charge up any particles leaving the HEPA filter and catch them with the other electrode.
[hackaday.com]

ionizing filters create ozone which is not good for you. Read up on the Ionic Breeze Air Purifiers...

Idea for an inexpensive filter-chamber to house a printer:

Tyvek® (Type 5, and I think Type 10) can be used as a filter for > 1.0 µm micrometer particles.

Tyvek® starts to loose its shape at 132°C, melts at 135°C, and burns at the auto-ignition temperature of 400°C.
Thus it is not meant to be used to protect from excessive heat or flames.

Tyvek® is made from continuous, very-fine high-density polyethylene (HDPE) which are randomly distributed and non-directional.

[www2.dupont.com]

[wiki.theplaz.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2014 09:49PM by A2.

Tyvek's a good idea, but mcmaster-carr has about 1000 different types of filter bags, some high temp and even sub 1 micron. Fairly priced too. mcmaster.com

I am not affiliated with or employed by mcmaster-carr.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2014 10:37PM by ohioplastics.

It really makes me laugh this topic, if your worried(and it seems you are.......risk assesments and all that c***), do something else or build it in a toxic free cabinet with an extraction system, please make sure you do your risk assessment when opening the cabinet and make sure you have your safety equipment on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this has built a whole tax system paid quango, this was carried out previously by people with a term called "common sense", its a laff this is!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2014 12:59PM by gaxxter.

Come on people, walking outside these days is much worse for your health unless you live in a less-dense area where there are not so many cars passing by all the time.

Last week someone at the academy was standing next to the 3D-printer and when they turned it on he insisted on leaving because he thought it was dangerous so he went outside and smoked a cigarette. I couldn't believe my eyes hahaha

Besides that, I'd would proudly lose some years because I sit next to my 3D-printer all the time, instead of smoking passively with other people outside. Even inhaling fumes from welding on galvanized parts will be long-term damaging, I can't imagine inhaling PLA fumes would do much to a person that gets outside enough and doesn't have any major health issues.

And I'll say it one more time, working with molten plastics can give you a headache at the end of the day and it will only really cause long-term damage, you won't get a sore throat from it unless you are completely locked-in with your printer without any ventilation/draft etc. I think you could only get a sore throat if you would hang above the heated bed and inhale the warm air for an hour So don't sorry

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2014 01:27PM by Ohmarinus.

Quote
gaxxter
It really makes me laugh this topic, if your worried(and it seems you are.......risk assesments and all that c***), do something else or build it in a toxic free cabinet with an extraction system, please make sure you do your risk assessment when opening the cabinet and make sure you have your safety equipment on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this has built a whole tax system paid quango, this was carried out previously by people with a term called "common sense", its a laff this is!

Hmm,
Another valuable addition to the discussion, if your happy to unwittingly poision yasel, crack on!
Might as well post the popcorn smilie, it would save you the time to type!

Quote
Ohmarinus
Come on people, walking outside these days is much worse for your health unless you live in a less-dense area where there are not so many cars passing by all the time.

Last week someone at the academy was standing next to the 3D-printer and when they turned it on he insisted on leaving because he thought it was dangerous so he went outside and smoked a cigarette. I couldn't believe my eyes hahaha

Besides that, I'd would proudly lose some years because I sit next to my 3D-printer all the time, instead of smoking passively with other people outside. Even inhaling fumes from welding on galvanized parts will be long-term damaging, I can't imagine inhaling PLA fumes would do much to a person that gets outside enough and doesn't have any major health issues.

And I'll say it one more time, working with molten plastics can give you a headache at the end of the day and it will only really cause long-term damage, you won't get a sore throat from it unless you are completely locked-in with your printer without any ventilation/draft etc. I think you could only get a sore throat if you would hang above the heated bed and inhale the warm air for an hour So don't sorry

Do we presume you eat nowt but Mcdonalds, drink 10 pints a night and bottle of whisky a day, smoke a hundred fags and do no exercise coz there's pollution everywhere and you got to die of summat eh!

If you don't why not?

Haha, oh man.. I turn 30 next week, am a single good looking guy that usually hears lower ages estimated.. I never smoked, rarely drink, drink tea in the evening and rarely go out Did boxing, but still do wave surfing, rollerblading, running, going to the gym 3 times a week playing with weights, swim, do speedcycling etc etc etc.. And to be honest... I can't remember the last time I ate at a McDonalds, but I eat french fries about once a week as a strict rule, because everybody needs those unhealthy fats to keep up their reserves!

But oh yes, when it comes to PLA-fume-inhalation I'm the bomb

From my 18th till my 25th I have wasted about 80% of my life-years with stuff you can't discuss on forums like this, so it really is a choice to live healthier now, but the capitalist crapsystem that surrounds me, makes it very hard to eat healthy and consciously since you can't even trust someone that tells you that their food is healthy since they just want to sell it..

But enough about that, besides trying to live a healthy life, and being aware that even thinking that you buy healthy food, may not mean it really is healthy, I don't mind breathing in exhaust fumes and PLA and ABS fumes on a daily basis

Oh and finally, no, I don't think I am better than others.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2014 05:09PM by Ohmarinus.

Quote
Ohmarinus
Haha, oh man.. I turn 30 next week, am a single good looking guy that usually hears lower ages estimated.. I never smoked, rarely drink, drink tea in the evening and rarely go out Did boxing, but still do wave surfing, rollerblading, running, going to the gym 3 times a week playing with weights, swim, do speedcycling etc etc etc.. And to be honest... I can't remember the last time I ate at a McDonalds, but I eat french fries about once a week as a strict rule, because everybody needs those unhealthy fats to keep up their reserves!

But oh yes, when it comes to PLA-fume-inhalation I'm the bomb

From my 18th till my 25th I have wasted about 80% of my life-years with stuff you can't discuss on forums like this, so it really is a choice to live healthier now, but the capitalist crapsystem that surrounds me, makes it very hard to eat healthy and consciously since you can't even trust someone that tells you that their food is healthy since they just want to sell it..

But enough about that, besides trying to live a healthy life, and being aware that even thinking that you buy healthy food, may not mean it really is healthy, I don't mind breathing in exhaust fumes and PLA and ABS fumes on a daily basis

Oh and finally, no, I don't think I am better than others.

Haha!
Mate, you could have been talking about me there! Surprising how similar a brief history of our lives sound, though I'm older (probably) not so good looking and not single (or gay) the rest is uncannily similar though on different continents I'm guessing.
I'm right with you on the "capitalist crapsystem" too.
I still Ski/Snowboard/MTB like I did when I was younger and often more extremely now than ever but the problem is that things are starting to break and it highlights the fact that our bodies won't take as much of a beating as they did when we're young. I think this includes the rubbish we expose them to as well. Fluoride/Chlorine in tap water, antibiotics/steroids in food, air pollution etc. I'm just keen to avoid another substance that could trigger something nasty.
There's probably no problem with PLA/ABS fumes but I bet that's what hat makers used to say when they were playing with the most toxic non radioactive element know to man as if it was playdough. The issue for me is not the toxicity of the materials per se but their nanoparticulate nature. Imagine if it's small enough to cross the BBB? I really can't see plastic in your neurons being too pleasant for your family to deal with when you end up with Alzheimer's or similar.
Having said that, it'll probably just displace the Aluminum or whatever else is currently inhabiting our brain cells!
Take it easy
D

Haha, nice one, I wanted to add that I am aware of the nanoparticles that surround us, especially in synthetic clothing, but also in water bottles.

There is a bottle, invented by someone from my home-town, it's a class 5 product, normally all plastic water-bottles are class-1 which is the lowest and most porous kind of PET plastic.

This is it:
[nl.dopper.com]

I have this version:
[nl.dopper.com]

It's a good design, however I am not totally pro-marketing the way they do it, but the bottle is a good design and it really does last long. Also, if you clean it well, the bottle doesn't turn bad, where with cheapo plastic bottles you notice the taste of the water changes after a month of use.

My 2c;

I'm not very worried about PLA, but ABS i think is another matter.
Around christmas i printed a bright red ABS gnome for my nephew, and we both got irritated eyes and sore throats from the fumes. I'm thinking the bright coloring had something to do with it. I haven't printed much ABS before so not much to compare to, but that red stuff seems nasty. I'm building a carbon filter fume hood as a consequence, I don't feel like leaving home every time I print in ABS.

Ps. As soon as we went for a walk outside, the irritation stopped, so there's no question the cause was the fumes.
/Andreas

Ahh, Netherlands! Explains why your English is better than mine! and you wouldn't worry about PLA vapour when ya'll have so many other "better" vapours to breathe in!! hehe :-)

If you're near Haarlem and you removed the sea (Ijmuiden to North Shields/Newcastle) your probably only 20K from me!
Crazy that I never even gave a thought to the fact that some plastic containers really make their contents smell/taste of plastic (bike bottles eg)
I might look into buying one!
D


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2014 02:57PM by maddog7.

I don't think it's fair to assume that because the majority(?) of us have no negative reactions to our beloved 3D printers, that they could not affect someone else completely different. ABS and PLA filament chemistry varies greatly vendor to vendor, and batch to batch in many cases. It could be as simple as that.

My wife and one daughter are allergic to all kinds of things, but the printer does not seem to bother either of them. I should mention that I'm an ABS-only guy.

From time to time, I'l get a roll of filament that causes my fingers to dry up if I handle it on a regular basis. ABS Reds, and Whites (not clear) seem to be the main culprits.

In any case, being a little extra cautious wouldn't hurt, if you really think there is an issue with indoor air quality due to the printer.

Seriously. Stop with the BS or you will get banned.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2014 12:07AM by NewPerfection.

maddog, I intend eventually to enclose my machine too - and fit a bathroom/kitchen extractor to remove the fumes and dump them outside. ScrewFix has a decent range of relatively low-priced fans if you're considering this approach (but a 4 inch-ish 12V computer fan would probably be just as cheap and more compatible with the printer PSU and safer from a wiring standpoint - you can always print ),

Cheers

Ray