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What determines minimum layer height?

Posted by NewKidOnTheBlock 
What determines minimum layer height?
January 30, 2014 06:16PM
Couldn't find this topic and apologize if this is too much of a newbie question but how is minimum layer height determined? Seems like more and more companies are boasting about how their new printer can achieve 75 or 50 microns, and 100 microns seems to be the general norm. Is it possible to reach print resolutions as low as 25 or 10 or even sub-micron levels via FFF methods?
Re: What determines minimum layer height?
January 30, 2014 06:21PM
In theory any printer can do layers down to 1 step on the z axis so 0.004mm if using m5 screws. But in reality it is all about how accurately you can control filament feeding. How how long you can be bothered to wait for tiny layers to print.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2014 06:22PM by lazzymonk.
Re: What determines minimum layer height?
January 30, 2014 06:26PM
Take a look at these two sites, which show prints with very small layer thicknesses 0.02mm and 0.04mm.

[www.flickr.com]

[www.tridimake.com]
Re: What determines minimum layer height?
January 30, 2014 06:27PM
This is what I have written about extrusion math in the past. It includes the minimum layer math as well (last two paragraphs)
Quote
Sublime
To start with the width needs to be at least as big as the nozzle hole for
positional accuracy. If not the walls will end up being uneven since the extrusion
can be to either side of the exit hole.

The max width we can print at is the free air extrusion width which is often
around 0.2mm larger than the drilled hole (this will vary with material, orifice
length and temperature). To find your specific size extrude into free air at a
constant speed (speed that appears to turn the hobbed bolt the same rate as
printing would turn it) and then measure the resulting filament with calipers.

Then we should say that the max height of any extrusion should not exceed 66% of
the width (width = 150% of height) this is to ensure the extruded filament is
making good contact with the layer below. For best strength we want the height
50% of the width or less (width = 200% of height or more).

The key I have found to good extrusion is a certain pressure inside the nozzle.
If it is too high we get blobs at the end of of paths. If too low we are printing
with ooze and not really forcing out the plastic under pressure. This means to
maintain the same pressure inside the nozzle at all heights we should narrow the
extrusion width as we go lower. I do this by dividing the difference between nozzle
diameter and free air diameter (die swell) between the max height (free air * 0.66)
and a theoretical minimum height (nozzle diameter * 0.1666) to get the ideal width
for any height. This gives us free air extrusion width at max height and nozzle
diameter at minimum height and a linear division between them.

There is more to take into account though. We can look at the volume of plastic that
is extruded on each step of a 5D extruder.
This is ((Filament_Radius^2)*3.14159)*(1/steps_per_mm_E) = volume per step. If you
take this into account you will see that if we want to print a single dot the diameter
of our extrusion we have a minimum height we can do that without over extruding. Or we
have a minimum diameter we can extrude at at any height. This results in the extrusion
diameter getting larger as we go down below a certain point. But to maintain that
magical extrusion pressure that gives use the best prints we then need to slow down
because the larger extrusion width at the lower height would require more force at the
same speed.

The calculator in my signature does all of this so there is no need to work it out for yourselves if you just want the answer.


FFF Settings Calculator Gcode post processors Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org Mini Printable Lathe How NOT to install a Pololu driver
Re: What determines minimum layer height?
January 30, 2014 07:35PM
Thanks sublime. It will take me about 3 more times reading through that to take it all in.
With all that math ..is this considered the end all equations to good prints or just a starting point to find what works best? I ask because i have been slowly trying to tune my printer, and i'm tring to understand what makes a good print, i can get a good looking peice of plastic off the bed, but that doesn't mean it is a quality print. Sorry derailing this thread..
Re: What determines minimum layer height?
January 30, 2014 09:37PM
Quote
cat.farmer
Thanks sublime. It will take me about 3 more times reading through that to take it all in.
With all that math ..is this considered the end all equations to good prints or just a starting point to find what works best? I ask because i have been slowly trying to tune my printer, and i'm tring to understand what makes a good print, i can get a good looking peice of plastic off the bed, but that doesn't mean it is a quality print. Sorry derailing this thread..

It is what I use to run all of my machines. I am sure it can be improved on and may not be highly accurate as far as the extrusion force staying constant. The entire thing is based on my two years of printing prior and trying to find a formula that reproduced my finding over that time. Since making the calculator I use it to make the profiles for Tantillus that others. I also know there are more than a few people using it for other machines with good success.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2014 09:58PM by Sublime.


FFF Settings Calculator Gcode post processors Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org Mini Printable Lathe How NOT to install a Pololu driver
Re: What determines minimum layer height?
January 31, 2014 04:52AM
Sublime: Thank you for the detailed explaination and even more thanks for your calculator lol smiling smiley

As a follow up question, how would one go about making sure everything is set up properly to ensure quality prints if the printer has multiple print-heads with different diameters?
Re: What determines minimum layer height?
January 31, 2014 11:18AM
Quote
NewKidOnTheBlock
Sublime: Thank you for the detailed explaination and even more thanks for your calculator lol smiling smiley

As a follow up question, how would one go about making sure everything is set up properly to ensure quality prints if the printer has multiple print-heads with different diameters?

Currently this is a little bit of a problem. The firmware does not allow different steps per mm for each extruder so you have to do it all in the slicer of your choice. I recommend Kisslicer or Cura.


FFF Settings Calculator Gcode post processors Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org Mini Printable Lathe How NOT to install a Pololu driver
Re: What determines minimum layer height?
January 31, 2014 04:08PM
Quote
Sublime
Quote
NewKidOnTheBlock
Sublime: Thank you for the detailed explaination and even more thanks for your calculator lol smiling smiley

As a follow up question, how would one go about making sure everything is set up properly to ensure quality prints if the printer has multiple print-heads with different diameters?

Currently this is a little bit of a problem. The firmware does not allow different steps per mm for each extruder so you have to do it all in the slicer of your choice. I recommend Kisslicer or Cura.

Sorry for another super noob question, but how would one go about doing that exactly? I'm fairly new to the 3D print world and have yet to build my printer so all software programing is completey foregein to me...
Re: What determines minimum layer height?
January 31, 2014 05:28PM
Each material will have a separate flow rate or flow modifier in the slicer. I do not have a multimaterial machine so I am not the best to answer this. It would be best to start a new thread in the appropriate forum section. Either the specific slicer section if available or maybe the printing section or one of the other software sections.


FFF Settings Calculator Gcode post processors Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org Mini Printable Lathe How NOT to install a Pololu driver
Re: What determines minimum layer height?
February 01, 2014 05:31PM
Cool. Thanks for the guidance, Sublime. smileys with beer
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