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Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)

Posted by CrazyIdea 
Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 24, 2012 06:14AM
A Dutch private organization Mars One wants to send 4 humans on a one way trip to the planet Mars with a spaceship to be launched in 2022, about 10 years from now.

How to survive on Mars in the best thinkable way? They have figured out a lot of things already, like how to extract water from the soil, how to grow their own plants there, etcetera. But what in my opinion is missing are machines that are capable of building anything from scratch, even copies of themselves.

Now imagine this:

The only things you have are a cubic meter Mars rock, 1000 liters of water and some solar radiation. Then the quest is (to start with) how to make a machine (or maybe a combination of e.g. 2 or 3 machines) that can build a laptop out of that? Maybe this is not even possible or doable (at least not within the next 10 years), but maybe it's worth to see how far we can get.

The first thing to do of course is to chop this problem into smaller parts. What must such a machine (or combination of machines) be capable of? I think it should at least contain the following:

1. Grinding the rock
2. Analyze the composition of the rock
3. Chemically selecting and restructuring the rockparts
4. 3D-print the laptop or 3D-print laptop-parts and assemble these laptop-parts

Maybe the machine should also be capable of finding the right rocks on Mars to extract the minerals from it that it needs.

Once you have such a machine, it will be able to reproduce itself and eventually create and army of e.g. 100 of such machines (to start with) to help constructing all kinds of things the humans on Mars need. Maybe even a spaceship to travel back to Earth.

I guess it will be a lot of human knowledge to combine in one machine. I like to hear your opinions about this.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2012 10:28PM by CrazyIdea.
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 24, 2012 07:14AM
I expect the chemical factory to be one of the most complicated parts of the machine. To get an impression of the difficulty of chemistry:

The chemistry of almost everything

And here an attempt to build something from scratch :

Thomas Thwaites: How I built a toaster -- from scratch

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2012 07:25AM by CrazyIdea.
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 24, 2012 11:40AM
Now let's focus on something what is difficult enough by itself: 3D-printing of a computerchip. And then assuming that all the refined materials for production are already available. Is it possible to build a small machine that 3D-prints a computerchip from these refined materials?
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 24, 2012 05:32PM
I was wondering if there is a name for this fictional machine or fictional team of machines that can produce anything you like from scratch. I came up with Universal Production Unit or simple UPU. How small or how big can a UPU be? I guess it must be huge to begin with, but maybe I'm dead wrong.
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 24, 2012 06:36PM
Facepalm
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 24, 2012 08:02PM
Now let's see what we can learn from the latest technological piece from NASA that is driving around on Mars: Curiosity. It has an an inbuilt system to analyze rock-composition. In the article Today On Mars: Curiosity's First X-Rays Determine Mars Soil Is Like Hawaii's it says:

Quote

CheMin uses X-ray diffraction, which is a standard geologic technique for identifying rocks. It was no small feat to bring this technology to Mars - scientists had to shrink a room-sized setup into something smaller than a standard microwave oven.

X-ray diffraction is helpful for identifying a rock's makeup because it tells you definitively what minerals are present. Chemical identification, which Curiosity can also do, is less precise - it might tell you you've got a carbon compound, for instance, but you wouldn't know whether it was graphite or diamond. CheMin can, because it distinguishes mineral structure by recording how their crystals interact with X-rays.

Now I like this for two reasons. Firstly because the technology for identifying minerals is already there and secondly because it shows that small systems can replace large systems without losing functionality. This is important because the amount of weight that can be sent to Mars is limited.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2012 08:26PM by CrazyIdea.
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 24, 2012 09:20PM
If this small-scale mining-machine can be improved and miniaturized, it could be a piece of the puzzle:

Quote

The Extrac-TEC Heavy Particle Concentration (HPC) technology allows for cost-effective gravity separation of minerals of differing densities without the use of chemicals.

Based on our revolutionary, new patented transverse spiral concentrator belt and benefiting from almost 20 years of development experience, the system boasts fine gold recovery rates of 95%-98% down to 50microns.
The HPC Equipment is ideally suited to the following applications:

Mining (gold, platinum, diamonds, gemstones and other minerals):
gold prospecting, exploration and bulk sampling
alluvial and placer gold mining operations where gold trommels, sluice boxes and panning are traditionally used
alluvial mining of other minerals including diamond and gemstone recovery
reprocessing of material from tailings dumps
as a pre-concentration component in hard rock mines for fine gold recovery and mineral extraction - prior to, or in place of chemical processes
for any mineral extraction or concentration application where gravity concentration is used, as an alternative to spiral concentrators
Sand and Gravel operations where gold and/or other minerals are present.
For environmental cleanups / lead remediation projects in decontamination of polluted land, specifically for lead shot or bullet recovery from trap & skeet, pistol and rifle shooting ranges

Key benefits of the HPC technology include:

A broad material-size processing spectrum with high recovery rates.
Mobile, self-contained machines from 10 to 400 tons/hour are fully equipped, robust, reliable and easy to set up and use.
A continuous process with a simple, secure and highly efficient final recovery stage which produces a minimal volume of concentrate.
An environmentally friendly process with no chemicals and reduced water use.
Versatility/scalability offering solutions to a wide range of operating requirements.

The “bottom line” is high yield, cost effective and reliable equipment requiring minimal operator skills allowing for the profitable processing of lower grade ore bodies in any location worldwide.
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 24, 2012 09:58PM
So far we have a rough impression in which direction we must look for the following steps:

1. Searching and collecting rocks
2. Processing the rocks
3. Analyze the minerals

The next step will be break up, refine and synthesize those minerals to get the materials we need. For that we probably need a heating device, a microwave-device and a laser-device. I think one of the greatest difficulties will be how to collect and store the vast chemistry knowledge of methods needed for converting the minerals into the wanted materials and how to implement those methods. Maybe it will be sufficient that the UPU has a remote connection with a chemistry knowledge database system. Of course knowledge of physics will be needed too.
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 24, 2012 10:25PM
An interesting article I came across is 3D printers as universal chemistry sets for nanotechnology

Quote

We’ve speculated here about whether 3D printers could lead toward nanofactories and noted recent progress in fast printing of arbitrarily complex three dimensional objects with 100-nanometer resolution. For the most part, 3D printers have been used to print solid objects made from plastic. Now chemist Leroy Cronin at Glasgow University is working on making 3D printers print molecules—becoming a universal chemistry set. A hat tip to KurzweilAI.net for pointing to this article by Tim Adams in The Observer. From “The ‘chemputer’ that could print out any drug“:

Professor Lee Cronin is a likably impatient presence, a one-man catalyst. “I just want to get stuff done fast,” he says. And: “I am a control freak in rehab.” Cronin, 39, is the leader of a world-class team of 45 researchers at Glasgow University, primarily making complex molecules. But that is not the extent of his ambition. A couple of years ago, at a TED conference, he described one goal as the creation of “inorganic life”, and went on to detail his efforts to generate “evolutionary algorithms” in inert matter. He still hopes to “create life” in the next year or two.

At the same time, one branch of that thinking has itself evolved into a new project: the notion of creating downloadable chemistry, with the ultimate aim of allowing people to “print” their own pharmaceuticals at home. Cronin’s latest TED talk asked the question: “Could we make a really cool universal chemistry set? Can we ‘app’ chemistry?” “Basically,” he tells me, in his office at the university, with half a grin, “what Apple did for music, I’d like to do for the discovery and distribution of prescription drugs.” …

My, my, where will this lead to?
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 25, 2012 06:02AM
Here some more recent interesting news:

Cronin group involved in major EU project to make smart chemo-robots!

Quote

The EU project, named MICREAgents (EU contribution €3.4 M), plans to build autonomous self-assembling electronic micro-reagents that are almost as small as cells. These micro-reagents will exchange chemical and electronic information to jointly direct complex chemical reactions and analyses in the solutions they are poured into. Together with teams from Germany, Denmark, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, Israel and New Zealand, the MICREAgents project heralds a major step beyond Lab-on-a-Chip devices towards the integration of chemistry and information technology.

This will definitely bring us a step closer to be able to construct advanced self-replicating machines !

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2012 06:11AM by CrazyIdea.
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 25, 2012 06:28AM
I can see that a Mars colony would want to be self-sufficient as possible, but I can't see a reason that the technology required needs to be self-contained or self-replicating. Without a natural ecosystem, a Mars colony will never be self-sufficient.

Perhaps you should start a blog. I love science-fiction, but this is not the appropriate forum.
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
November 25, 2012 08:12AM
@bobc :

I can clearly see your point. Maybe this isn't the appropriate forum, although I think that what is going on on this forum has certainly important interfacing with the subject.

But to still answer your remark that you can't see a reason that the technology required needs to be self-contained or self-replicating and that without a natural ecosystem, a Mars colony will never be self-sufficient :

The idea is that one self-replicating machine could make a copy of itself, and if 1 can create 1, then 2 can create 2, and 4 can create 4, etcetera, thus building a robot-army that could build factories that thicken the atmosphere on Mars enough to be able to create an ecosystem on Mars. I will not go into details of terraforming Mars which is a big topic in itself, but it is likely that such a created ecosystem on Mars can sustain itself. It has been calculated that Mars can hold the thickened atmosphere for at least millions of years.

To meet your hint I let the subject rest for now, unless the general opinion on this forum points out otherwise.

Thanks for your feedback.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2012 08:17AM by CrazyIdea.
VDX
Re: Building from Scratch (the ultimate quest?)
December 07, 2012 03:04AM
... the general interest ist there, but this 'build infrastructure from scratch' concept has to prove it's feasibility, before more people get interested and involved eye rolling smiley


Viktor
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