Thingiverse Alternative poll on Reddit

[www.reddit.com]

Would love to see what everyone wants

---

repraplogphase.blogspot.com

Thingiverse is not perfect, and yes it is run by a for-profit, but what specifically about it is so terrible?

There are also a lot of existing alternatives, and they all have good points and bad points: GrabCad, ShapeWays, heck even Pirate Bay has a section for things now. I'm sure there are many others.

What is happening with Tangible Bytes?

There have been efforts before on the wiki to start thing libraries but they didn't get very far (see Big Fat Upload Button and ItemsMade)

What everyone wants most of all is to see and be seen. Everyone uses thingiverse because everyone uses thingiverse.

What I want from a site like Thingiverse (I was going to post this last night about this want) is a forum where we can exchange stuff and have collaborations then the final item could be put up on the master grabbing site (in this case Thingiverse).

The reprap forum already has that and almost no one uses it

See "Look what I made!"
and "Let's design something!"

MattMoses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reprap forum already has that and almost no
> one uses it
>
> See "Look what I made!"
> and "Let's design something!"
That is because there is no repository for the finished product on here. Give what we have here attached to something like Thingiverse and you got me, and a bet a bunch more.

MattMoses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is happening with Tangible Bytes?

I've had zero time to work on it. I would like to get it finished and if anyone would like to code the API part for Git integration I would love the help.

A huge portion of what people have requested in the Reddit page are part of Tangiblebytes design.

1) Github integration with history. (you own the desgin and are responsible for its content becasue it is your GitHub account. TangibleBytes is only an access point.

2) Collaboration.

3) Highly customisable searches.

4) No bias for any ones work because is has not featured page.

5) Instead of the Featured items it has voting both up and down to determine the ones that should be shown.

6) Ability to follow items and get updates.

7) Free ads on the community resources page for businesses that contribute designs to the community. Printable, software, hardware, cuttable, etc. As long as you give back you get free ad space in one place (not on the normal pages thou).

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2012 10:52PM by Sublime.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Thingiverse is a good site, but it is hard to differentiate between things that are just for fun, and things that are useful. It's also not that great for project collaboration like Github is. Someone on the Reddit page mentioned Amazon-like categories, which I like. That way, if people make lab instruments that can be RP'd, it will be much easier to find. 3D printing is fantastic for science, especially for enabling science outside universities, which is something we should emphasize. We should have RP PCR machines, spinners and agitators. We should have documentation on how to use them. FYI, I'm going to be building a low-cost spinner pretty soon, and will probably change its design to be more RP once I finish my Prusa.

The thing I dislike most about Thingiverse is the lack of source files. A .stl file is NOT a true source file 99.9% of the time. That needs to be made more clear to up-loaders.

Also, sort files by source type (solidworks, eagle, iges, sketchup, etc) and rank files based on "hackability" (variety and availability of source files maybe?)

Additionally, provide a button to download all files associated with a "thing" into a single zip file.

---

www.Fablicator.com

stl files may not be but when people spend hours, days, weeks, months making something I know I am not asking them for their source files.

Quote
Dark Alchemist
stl files may not be but when people spend hours, days, weeks, months making something I know I am not asking them for their source files.

Why not?

The whole purpose of posting objects is so other people can make use of them and that often involves making changes. In some cases the STL file is enough but in many others it makes no sense, e.g. I design most things using OpenSCAD and I always make the designs parametric so only changing a few variables allows configuring the object to your needs.

Without posting the .scad file this wouldn't be very useful...

---

Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

rhmorrison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > stl files may not be but when people spend
> hours, days, weeks, months making something I know
> I am not asking them for their source files.
>
>
> Why not?
>
> The whole purpose of posting objects is so other
> people can make use of them and that often
> involves making changes. In some cases the STL
> file is enough but in many others it makes no
> sense, e.g. I design most things using OpenSCAD
> and I always make the designs parametric so only
> changing a few variables allows configuring the
> object to your needs.
>
> Without posting the .scad file this wouldn't be
> very useful...

This is only true for openscad users it is more than useless for anyone using anything else. An stl is 10,000 times more useful to me using Blender then a .scad file.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Quote

An stl is 10,000 times more useful

Obviously, there should be more than one representation. Just like with electronics designs, there you get sources, Gerbers and PDF. Just like with software, there you get sources as well as binaries.

With parts, there probably should be the original file, application dependent, an STEP or IGES for import into other CAD applications and an STL. Not all of them mandatory, of course, as many people shy away from uploading originals ("huh, didn't clean up, yet!").

---

Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

Quote

An stl is 10,000 times more useful to me using Blender then a .scad file.

Anyone can convert the scad to STL using openscad which is free and multi-platform, so I don't see how the STL is 10000 times more useful. Just the opposite. You can convert it on the command line or in the GUI without any knowledge of the language.

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I just know you would never get the original file from me if I had worked on something for thousands of hours. I give what I give and people should be grateful not demanding more and I expect no less from others. This has nothing to do with open software so don't try and pull that one out of the hat either.

I appreciate when someone gives me something to print because they are giving to the community and to ask for more is disrespectful and ungrateful.

As far as stl goes go read up on the format and see that the file has so much more to offer but was never implemented due to lazy programmers I supposed. Where I read that I don't remember but it could have been on wiki. I was surprised at what is in the specs and per the article I was reading about stl they just never are implemented by the majority of the programs. It really is a wonderful format if only implemented fully but the measly part of the stl we have now is crap imo.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2012 06:41AM by Dark Alchemist.

> This has nothing to do with open software so don't try and pull that one out of the hat either.

Hah. You should read the licensing terms on thingiverse that govern the content you upload. There's no option for anything BUT an open source license. If you don't want to release your work open source then don't upload it to thingiverse.

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just know you would never get the original file
> from me if I had worked on something for thousands
> of hours. I give what I give and people should be
> grateful not demanding more and I expect no less
> from others. This has nothing to do with open
> software so don't try and pull that one out of the
> hat either.

If you do that, you will drive away everyone who wants to adjust or develop the design further or use it as a basis for derivative works. They will move to an open source alternative even if your design is technically superior. (If it's significantly superior, someone will develop an open source clone and there's nothing except patenting to prevent that). So by keeping the sources completely private you'll just end up dooming your project to relative obscurity, as potential contributors are pushed to develop technically competing projects.

You misunderstand the intent. The file is stl and that is what you get and you may do with that as you want but not the original files you will not.

Now if that is a part to say a reprap then yeah I can see the want for the original files but something like a work of art then I say no. I saw some serious works of art on Thingiverse and no way should they give you anything but the art but I have seen a lot of parts on Thingiverse too and without the original cad files you are stuck.

There is also the "No derivatives" license:


This means that they can use/print your design as is but not modify it!

---

Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

rhmorrison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is also the "No derivatives" license:
> [forums.reprap.org]
> name=ThingiverseLicenses.jpg
>
> This means that they can use/print your design as
> is but not modify it!
Like that will stop them, lol. Just because something is Creative Commons doesn't mean you have to include everything you worked on just that the file that is being uploaded is part of the CC.

If it is a work of art then I stand my ground and if it is a part to make a printer better than I would say to upload the cad files too but I am not going to force them.

My point was if they are not allowed to modify it then it would be silly to upload the source files and the STL file is fine.

---

Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

I can agree with that in part as I see the CC (when I say CC I mean just the plain ole CC not the no derivatives one) as the CC of that file not of the entire project.

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An stl is 10,000 times more useful to me using
> Blender then a .scad file.
>
> Anyone can convert the scad to STL using openscad
> which is free and multi-platform, so I don't see
> how the STL is 10000 times more useful. Just the
> opposite. You can convert it on the command line
> or in the GUI without any knowledge of the
> language.

You may find this true but my statement about it being 10,000 times more useful to me still stands. Modern OS's do not support my Laptops video card so I can not run openscad in GUI mode and I have NO idea how to do anything with it from the command line. But I can import ANY stl and modify it in a fraction of a second with blender in software rendering mode. Even broken stl's are great to me. Also when I run openscad on the one computer I have that will run it I then have to search the interent for the other files that are requested by the .scad file before I can even attempt to export it. None of this makes it as easy as you make it sound. Opening an stl in any mesh modeller thou is EASY.

Do you find my .blend files easy to use and export from and would you like them instead of stl's? Because that is what you are proposing with .scad being cross platform and easy for anyone.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Different formats have different strengths. OpenSCAD, for all its innumerable flaws, is a parametric modeler. With a properly constructed source file, you can make very complex changes quickly. Something that may take hours or days on Blender. On the other hand, edits that don't rely on the parametric model are quicker in Blender. Depending on what you want or need, one format will be 10,000 times more useful than another.

I don't expect people to learn my CAD system of choice (or pay for a seat!), so I post neutral formats for people using other systems, in addition to the source files from my system, as a courtesy. In the case of OpenSCAD and the other free/open CAD tools, someone may not want to go to the trouble to install it and learn it well enough to export an .stl (though OpenSCAD is very simple to learn).

Really, this reads just like another vi/emacs holy war. Different people have different needs, that's all.

P.S. emacs FTW (OK, I never really learned it).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2012 01:27PM by Dale Dunn.

If you have a scad file you can make an STL with openscad -o name.stl name.scad. If you have an STL you can't make a scad file from it ,so a scad file must be more useful than an STL, never the other way round. It might be slightly inconvenient to get a scad file but no less useful.

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you have a scad file you can make an STL with
> openscad -o name.stl name.scad. If you have an STL
> you can't make a scad file from it ,so a scad file
> must be more useful than an STL, never the other
> way round. It might be slightly inconvenient to
> get a scad file but no less useful.

I love how other people know what is easier for me then I do. I guess when I say "an stl is 10,000 times easier for ME" I have no f***kn idea what is easier for me, but you clearly do. No matter what a universal format that anyone can open and use is better then one that requires a special program to open.

A .blend file is just as easy to make changes to as a .scad file but I do not claim it is easier for the rest of the world to use. The stl is just easy to make changes to if you know what you are doing. Just like when you know how to use openscad a .scad file is easy for you.

Have a look through all my thingiverse things and see all the derivatives I made from stl files and tell me again how they are "not a good source". With the right skills they are the perfect source and you can modify them in your favourite program that you understand and know. If you think using a program you do not understand and does not run on your computer is easy please feel free to use my .blend files.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

You said "10,000 times more useful " not "10,000 times easier for ME" the first time. I never mentioned the word "easier". In fact I said "slightly less convenient" which does not mean easier.

I doubt openscad uses the graphics card when you run it from the command line so it should run on any PC in that mode.

Since blender runs Pyyhon plug ins I expect it could be made to open scad files.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2012 05:39PM by nophead.

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

@ Nophead

It is true I said more "useful" the first time and then said "easier". But you can change the word "easier" to "useful" in my statement it it still stands. If I can not use the .scad file because I am not able to open it and I do not know how to use it from the command line (like 80% of us) then it is completely and 100% useless to me. But the .stl ALWAYS works so it is 10,000 times more useful. There is no need to argue about this because it is a statement about what is better for me, NOT YOU. If you feel different that is fine and I am not saying you are wrong about it being more useful to you. But I almost guarantee if I had said a .blend file is more useful to you then an stl you would be arguing the same thing as I am.

Having people bitch about the source missing is a joke. If you can not work with what has been supplied then you can design it yourself. The person supplying the stl's does not have any obligation to share them with you, so bitching about the missing source is just being unappreciative of the work they have done and only leads to them not sharing their stl's either. People should appreciate what has been done for them and except it for what it is. If someone supplies a .scad only file I do not complain and say "where are the stl's" or "where are the solidworks files" etc etc. I just don't use that item and design it myself if I want it.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2012 06:53PM by Sublime.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Sublime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
[snip]
> Having people bitch about the source missing is a
> joke. If you can not work with what has been
> supplied then you can design it yourself. The
> person supplying the stl's does not have any
> obligation to share them with you, so bitching
> about the missing source is just being
> unappreciative of the work they have done and only
> leads to them not sharing their stl's either.
> People should appreciate what has been done for
> them and except it for what it is. If someone
> supplies a .scad only file I do not complain and
> say "where are the stl's" or "where are the
> solidworks files" etc etc. I just don't use that
> item and design it myself if I want it.

Exactly.

Alright I am going to be real with everyone and that is that I always heard that the open source movement was just a band of pirates and thieves and/or freeloaders but I always argued that was not the case. Now when I hear demands of giving the source files, as I have in this thread, I can't argue any longer because you are proving their side. Seriously, you are hurting the movement as the greed, or possibly laziness/lack of understanding your tools at hand, is getting the best of you and this movement.

Want this movement (opensource, 3d printers, etc...) to continue and broaden in its scope? Then be pleased with what you get and take it giving a "Thank You" after you do. Reminds me of my auto tech brother-inlaw who works in a shop and every Christmas the wife of the owner gives homemade pies to every employee. What happened the year before last year reminds me of what I hear on this thread and that is they were ungrateful for what they received and instead bitched that they wanted money instead of the pies. My brother-inlaw loved those pies and looked forward to them every year but thanks to the ungrateful employees they now receive nothing...no money nor pies.

I think you are misreading people's tone (a thing that can be difficult over the internet). The community in general is very much more:

"Hey, any chance i could have the source file so i can tweak your model slightly to make it perfect for me"

than:

"RAAAARGH HOW DARE YOU NOT GIVE ME YOUR SOURCE FILES, CURSE YOU 1,000,000 TIMES YOU BASTARD"

TRUE, but it only takes a couple of the Type 2 responses to make someone sour!
nophead also got some of these Type 2 responses because he wouldn't release his Mendel90 design until he was satisified that it was good enough.

No matter how much you do for some people it's not enough...

Fortunately the majority are of Type 1!

---

Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse