Open sourcelie deleted, shame on you?

4986

Thanks Karen carpenter for you wisdom. Worth the wait.

It seems like has been said before that bom are held back on purpose. Is this in the open source spirit? Probably not. Will it change. Probably not, it's a way of keeping it closed whilst seeming open.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 03:46PM by VDX.

The problem is that gerads1111's definition of open source is not the same as the actual definition of it as set out by licenses. This is clearly explained by Stephen Carpenter above. So his entire argument is nonsense. Fair enough he can campaign for a new type of opensource, but he can't slag of anybody else for not playing his rules, as they are his only, and he certainly shouldn't be hurling abuse at people.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Holy wow... (and chuckling away to myself)

"Karen Carpenter"? --Did you just call me a girl? What, are you going to throw rocks at me on the playground?

(sigh)

Okey dokey, so far you have called me a "girl", and called other folks trolls and also threw out digs on people's spelling, grammar, reading ability and much, much more. --And you want to be taken seriously? I gotta tell you, I have gotten myself in the middle of plenty of silly internet debates, but for this -you should be awarded a cake.

Yup, I am officially done with this one as well. But again, I feel I must leave you with a bit of truth from back home...

Don't wrestle a pig, folks. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.

Wow.

Another nugget. Just returning the misspelled name. Im sure it was funny when you changed it. I deided tonreturn the joke a little further.
I suppose all sayings start with observations.


And there is the problem . People decide to attack instead of debating and don't like the return.

Keep to the point and then I wouldn't need to return the negativity.

Chris just because you say it doesn't make it true. Doesnt matter how well you design robots, there is no need for your condescending tone.

Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 03:47PM by VDX.

@gerards1111
ok I'll admit I'm new here and am unfamilar with the up and coming contributors so here is your chance for you to change my opinion of you by answering these questions(ignoring any of them will maintain your title of troll-hood)
1. what kind of printers do you have built or are WIP?
2. what improvements and innovations are you working on?
3. what is your solution to the problem you have put forth?

Troll hood? It's ok if you have a low opinion of me, I don't know you.

How you get that from
A. Asking about the dilution of reprap ie Mendel has source and bom. Most of the derivatives do not.
B. having to defend against negative off topic attacks from people with opposing view or vested interest.


Actually I feel most think the same but don't realise it.

Just now n the sublime thread. A thread that reinforces the need to release source early. A comment was made that the iterative process is what reprap is about. Not possible without source.

Maybe though the advice from nophead in that thread was a clever way of derailing it.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 03:47PM by VDX.

so how do you propose we solve this issue, you also have to think about some people might think there just fixing a small error, and its not worth posting much about, vs another who thinks that it is a bigger fix than the other person think.?

i am not sure what you expect of this group in the regards of the license, ya it would be nice if everyone was upfront about there work, but it would be far worse if the reprap group tried to regulate every derivative, that would be a bloody mess, and no one would be happy.

the reprap group are allot like cats, you every try to heard cats.?

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[mike-mack.blogspot.com]

look i can understand if your an individual who simply tells it straight and doesn't want to waste his time with tact and that is something i can respect assuming your not a troll that just constantly tries to strike a nerve to get a reaction. so stop dancing and answer the questions(especially number 3)

It seems nophead made the view of the reprap clear when he stated people are following open source to the letter. I would say its a slippery slope when an open source community starts to read the small print so they can hide behind. Nophead already does this. Billyk was worried about this.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 03:48PM by VDX.

gerards1111 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Just now n the sublime thread. A thread that
> reinforces the need to release source early. A
> comment was made that the iterative process is
> what reprap is about. Not possible without
> source.
>
AND

> community starts to read the small print so they can hide behind. Nophead already does this.
--------------

If you mean my post on the Tantillus build thread - you [surprise] have the wrong end of the stick.

I find the quiet cooperation of individuals who could be construed as having opposing commercial interests embodies the spirit of reprap. The cooperation, not the iteration.

Nophead - like Sublime - does not need to hide behind anything. A couple of weeks reading his extensive blog would not only educate you, but also give you something a little more constructive to do with the free time you are frittering away on this pointless crusade.

Bill

Thank you billyc54.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 03:49PM by VDX.

still dodging the question i see. do you even have a solution?

I don't need to hide behind anything. I have published more intellectually property than anyone in reprap. All my research for 5 years, all my design decisions, including what doesn't work is on line. I have never sold anything that didn't have publicly available source code. My conscience is completely clear.

I have no idea what you mean by

Quote

Maybe though the advice from nophead in that thread was a clever way of derailing it.

Sublime published his case design and said nobody had managed to print it in ABS. I like a challenge so I am printing it and giving feedback. Simple as that, no hidden agenda.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Nophead I dont argue that you have helped reprap. Why though did you hide the code you had developed for better prints? Is it so your usp was better prints?

Passinglurker I am not dodging anything except your assertion that to ask a question about open source one must first contribute. The classic derailing technique of all forum arguments.

I am not looking for your respect as I don't know you. Why would I need your respect. What have you done?

I am asking a question.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 03:49PM by VDX.

What code Re you referring too. He uses the same software we do from what I know.

What are you talking about hiding code..? The settings for his printers

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[mike-mack.blogspot.com]

Back in the day nophead came up with his own code. What this was I don't know. Ask around.

This code supposedly made his prints better. This is what sublime referred to when he went to PM to criticise nophead.

He used the open source argument to justify it then.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 03:50PM by VDX.

gerards1111

This is a simple question. What action do you suggest to fix the problem you perceived there to be with the current use of open source?

If there is no fix, whats the point of this thread?

If there is, then lets have it.

And its no good insulting my spelling or grammar. I'm dyslexic, and I couldn't care less if people on the Internet want to nitpick and ignore whats said. I know I will never get it bloody right as I never have. So people either take it or leave it. Its up to them if they think that's so important it needs pointing out all the time. Its not like I wright in text speak or some obscure esoteric writing style laced with references which nobody understands or knows.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2012 06:49PM by Madkite.

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Make your Mendel twice as accurate.
[www.thingiverse.com]

I nearly cried then.

I and others have offered some ideals if you feel that you want to be truly open source.
If you want to make money first maybe don't tradeon being open source.


Maybe trade on what makes your machine better and worth the money.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 03:50PM by VDX.

reasons behind my questions
question 1. to prove you have practical experience(we can talk till the cows come home but the person who has been there and done that always wins)
question 2. to prove that you live what you preach
question 3. to prove your not a troll
you may not want my respect but avoiding these questions isn't going to earn you the respect of those who can lock or delete this thread because they believe the discussion is going no where good.

you know thats a good thought does any one believe this thread is going any where?

as for what i have done to contribute, i have done nothing hence why i'm not harassing those who do contribute with my own philosophies (if you consider my comments to you harassment then note you haven't said what you have contributed to the community

Number 3 is only the relevant question. 1 and 2 massage you ego. 3 has been answered.

So to question the scramble for money over the quick exchange of ideas is seen as heresy.

Also it is wrong to quetion the hiding of source when a project is being traded as open?

Why not say wht your opinion is instead of trying to create walls to stop debate. It seems that by your own admission you have no input so why even get involved.

I also have zero respect for fence sitters.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 03:51PM by VDX.

can you show any proof of this so called code being held back.?

i have dealt with Nophead in the past, i have allot of respect for him, from what he has contributed and for his skill at printing, a few things that i have needed in the past. he has earned respect of others and my self.

if you have other issues, can you pleas site them, and show why they are issues, and yes i want to see reference material to look at.

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[mike-mack.blogspot.com]

He even mentioned it in the thread he deleted. Ask sublime.

I didn't sy he contributed nothing but unfortunately he had decided at some point in the past that self need outweighed the group. Whether the codes still relevant or has been discovered by someone else is unknown. At the time he was making good money printing plastic.

Search for nophead source on google.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 03:51PM by VDX.

this is the part that sucks for you,

i have not read your first post. so you will need to show us what you read that caused you to take your stance.

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[mike-mack.blogspot.com]

When I have needed help mostly when I was getting started just over a year ago most of my questions were answered by either Nophead or Subline often by both with slightly different answers.

I have learned a lot from their blogs, their advice is freely given often without being asked for by way of the blogs and posting files on places like Thingiverse. I really can't see where they are hiding stuff.

This thread like the other one that was pulled just seem to me to be a personal vendetta against those who do the most for the RepRap community. I certainly wouldn't be as far down the road with my printing if it wasn't for their help

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__________________________________________________________________________
Experimenting in 3D in New Zealand

NelsonRap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I have needed help mostly when I was getting
> started just over a year ago most of my questions
> were answered by either Nophead or Subline often
> by both with slightly different answers.
>
> I have learned a lot from their blogs, their
> advice is freely given often without being asked
> for by way of the blogs and posting files on
> places like Thingiverse. I really can't see where
> they are hiding stuff.
>
> This thread like the other one that was pulled
> just seem to me to be a personal vendetta against
> those who do the most for the RepRap community. I
> certainly wouldn't be as far down the road with my
> printing if it wasn't for their help

i have to agree with you NelsonRap

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[mike-mack.blogspot.com]

NelsonRap That's absolutely true.

I think many of us here are where we are because of them and the many other helpful people here.

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Make your Mendel twice as accurate.
[www.thingiverse.com]

I haven't hidden any code relevant to reprap. True I haven't published the simple code I wrote for Hydraptor five years ago but that is because Reprap decided to go down the route of using g-code, USB and Arduino.The code I use is very specific to my hardware and uses closed source Windows only professional compilers / IDEs.

I have published all the techniques it uses.Nothing magical, just a Bresehnam loop with trapezoidal acceleration, which I have published in these forums,.I don't use PID, I just turn the heaters on if they are too cold and off if too hot.I don't control the extruder with Bresenham I just run it at constant speed with fast forward at the start and rewind at the end. The reversal technique was shared at the time I did it: [hydraraptor.blogspot.co.uk] and now all slicers and firmware support it. My firmware does nothing more other than the Ethernet comms, That's it.

I don't use the flow the rate calculations from Skeinforge but I published my calculations and I think Skeinforge now does something similar (Slic3r seems to use some completely different maths). I pioneered starting with a blob and a square outline round the object, but I didn't keep that secret and now slicers do a skirt. Another unique thing my software does is auto bed levelling, but again I published the code for that as soon as I did it. I now have unattended starts, again published as soon as I did it.

Yes I have a good reputation for quality parts and that has enabled me to give up my full time job and concentrate on Reprap. What is wrong with that? I don't use any hidden secret techniques. Surely it advances development if people are working full time on reprap. To do that they need to make money. Why would they cut their own throats by publishing things they intend to sell before they are in a position to sell them? I have not done that but I see no legal or moral reason why people shouldn't.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I really don't know why this thread is continuing, can't all the sane people here just agree to stop posting and return to reality.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

glyn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really don't know why this thread is continuing,
> can't all the sane people here just agree to stop
> posting and return to reality.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------
> ---

if a mod believes this thread is going nowhere besides hurt-feelings-ville they will just lock or delete the thread and if gerards1111 keeps bringing up new ones he'll just get banned. my point is these things have a way of solving them selves

@gerards1111 no you didn't answer question 3 unless it was in that deleted thread which i never read cause it was so bad it got deleted before i even woke up that morning

... i'm following this with some interest, as it's a lesson in arguing and i can improve my English

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Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]