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Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)

Posted by jseaber 
Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
April 05, 2012 07:47PM
Someone suggested I share these before & after prints.

Both were done on the same Prusa with new Printrboard electronics and identical Marlin firmware. I'd tried a new thermistor table, which should've matched the 100K Epcos thermistor on my hotend (beta 4066), but prints came out looking melty.

I dropped hotend temp in 5C increments to fix the melty appearance, finally stopping at 210C in Pronterface. So, the 100K EPCOS table in Marlin RC2 either doesn't match beta 4066, or isn't well calibrated with my hotend.



Print at left:
-Hotend set at 230C in Pronterface
-GCode sliced by SFACT

Print at right:
-Hotend set at 210C
-GCode sliced by Slic3r

Hope this helps someone...
Attachments:
open | download - photo.JPG (334.2 KB)
Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
April 06, 2012 07:41AM
The one on the left looks like a demonic bunny. Perfect for Easter!


- akhlut

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Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
April 06, 2012 11:51AM
210° is what I've been been using for ABS with my MakerGear hot end. Sometimes 200°, sometimes 220°. The temperature read by thre thermistor with vary some from one machine to the next, depending on exactly where the thermistor is, how good the thremal contact is, etc. On top of that, different batches of ABS will require different extrusion temperatures. So, for every batch of ABS on your machine, you have to find the number that works. Numbers quoted by others are just a starting point. So, I would say it's probably not calibrated to your hot end, but it's not a big deal. You know what works now.
Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
April 08, 2012 12:08PM
Not only have different ABS batches had different melt temps for me but also different colors. Every color seems to want a different setting. I range between 200 and 225C for all my ABS.


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Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
October 18, 2014 07:42AM
Quote
C. Cecil
Not only have different ABS batches had different melt temps for me but also different colors. Every color seems to want a different setting. I range between 200 and 225C for all my ABS.
Old thread I know but I just bought some filament as I was on the same 1kg for 7 or 8 months (no where near out either) and I will say you are right.

KBell - 225-230c and brittle
Hatchbox - 210-220c and NOT brittle.

I purchased the new rolls because I was tired of printing in Day-Glo Yellow and I wanted to try a different brand. I will never touch KBell again once the spool is done.

I was going to go into a diatribe about all of the bad stuff with KBell that I have experienced from the first meter forward but decided to just say that Hatchbox (it is leaps and bounds better) seems to want way different temps and it sticks to the bed at much much much lower temps. With KBell I had to do 95-105c with Hatchbox I am doing 80-85c so it isn't just the print temps that seems to change.

Now I have only used the black, so far, and the white I will use soon and since everything else about these two spools of filament look, and measure, identical if anything changes it will be because the color (colour for you Euro types) differences and what is involved in getting those colors in the ABS.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2014 07:43AM by Dark Alchemist.

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Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
November 04, 2017 06:45PM
30 yrs in the plastics industry and I can tell you that colorants do affect material properties. Also, different manufacturers use different additives which account for many of the variations seen between brands. On another note, thermistors (and heaters) should be seated, contacting the metal block of the hot end to get the best results. Measuring or heating an air pocket or gap is quite inconsistent.
Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
November 04, 2017 08:02PM
Quote
Bokem44
30 yrs in the plastics industry and I can tell you that colorants do affect material properties. Also, different manufacturers use different additives which account for many of the variations seen between brands. On another note, thermistors (and heaters) should be seated, contacting the metal block of the hot end to get the best results. Measuring or heating an air pocket or gap is quite inconsistent.
I never did finish the KBell spool as it is pure junk (would no longer stick to itself and was really too brittle but wasn't pure ABS if much ABS to it) and they went out of business so good riddance.

I would think the real heat sensor should be at the nozzle itself and not in the heater block as the nozzle is where the melting is happening but that is impractical.


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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.
Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
November 08, 2017 10:46AM
I think so long as you try to determine as best you can what the temp you see indicated actually is really at the nozzle, I use a K type thermocouple and heatsink paste and place the sensor on the nozzle then measure a few select temperatures that are often used 200,220,250 etc..when setting up.

Or switch to a pt100 sensor which are far more accurate.

The other implication of temperature is that interlayer bonding is better at higher temperatures even if stringing is worse and parts look melted.


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Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
November 08, 2017 02:49PM
Quote
DjDemonD
I think so long as you try to determine as best you can what the temp you see indicated actually is really at the nozzle, I use a K type thermocouple and heatsink paste and place the sensor on the nozzle then measure a few select temperatures that are often used 200,220,250 etc..when setting up.

Or switch to a pt100 sensor which are far more accurate.

The other implication of temperature is that interlayer bonding is better at higher temperatures even if stringing is worse and parts look melted.
I agree but I don't know of a knock-off hot end that uses a thermocoupler and I have no idea how to hook one up to a Ramps 1.4 either. Probably not hard just never looked it up since I have no need to buy an 80 dollar real E3D just to be able to use a Thermocoupler.


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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.
Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
November 08, 2017 02:51PM
You can buy Chinese hotend heater blocks with cartridge style temperature probes, and you can buy themocouples/pt100 and the amplifier boards required from China also. I bought 1 e3d pt100 for £12 and 3 from china for £8 but I dont know if the cheap ones will work as well.

But it doesn't matter I have a multimeter with a thermocouple so I use it to check my thermistor table/values are right.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2017 02:52PM by DjDemonD.

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Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
November 08, 2017 03:53PM
Quote
DjDemonD
You can buy Chinese hotend heater blocks with cartridge style temperature probes, and you can buy themocouples/pt100 and the amplifier boards required from China also. I bought 1 e3d pt100 for £12 and 3 from china for £8 but I dont know if the cheap ones will work as well.

But it doesn't matter I have a multimeter with a thermocouple so I use it to check my thermistor table/values are right.
I should have added that I am still not convinced a thermocoupler matters for temps below 300c which is as far as I would attempt a thermistor. I just haven't seen a compelling reason to switch beyond the "it is something new" boat.


_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.
Re: Temperature vs. Print Quality (ABS)
November 09, 2017 08:41AM
The difference with say pt100 and thermistor is that with pt100, as long as your leads/connections are not poor and there are not a lot of extra joins in the cable (which increases the resistance) the response from the pt100 sensor is much more usable. You connect it up and if it says 110 deg C then the temp is 110 degC, rather than with a thermistor being ANY deg C unless your thermistor table is very good, or you calibrate it yourself

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2017 09:00AM by DjDemonD.

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